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<blockquote data-quote="redkobold" data-source="post: 1105139" data-attributes="member: 2585">I just read through d20 Modern and I really am impressed.&nbsp; I thought the writing and presentation were superb.I was only unhappy about one thing...nonlethal damage.&nbsp; The idea that two normal people could pummel each other endlessly with no effect (unless they struck one special critical hit maximum damage strike and the opponent had a low Constitution).&nbsp; Even with the critical hit, the opponent could still pass a save.Does this bother anyone else?&nbsp; I thought that I had read this wrong but the wording seems to imply using nonlethal damage of an individual attack.&nbsp; What are some alternatives?This may move this post to the House Rules but here is what I came up with.Option 1Every time a target sustains nonlethal damage, he must make a Fortitude Save (DC=nonlethal damage).&nbsp; Since the damage is low, in most cases, he will pass.&nbsp; If the Fortitude Save is passed there is no effect.&nbsp; If it is failed, the target is Stunned for 1 round.If a Stunned target sustains nl damage , another Fortitude Save is required (DC=5+non lethal damage).&nbsp; If passed, target remains stunned 1 more round.&nbsp; If failed, target is knocked Unconcious 1d4+1 rounds.If an Unconcious target sustanins nl damage, another Fort Save is required (DC=10+nl dmg).&nbsp; If passed, target remains unconcious +1 more rounds.&nbsp; If failed, treat as if target has sustained Massive Damage (reduced to -1 hit points).&nbsp;&nbsp; The break in the logic here is that normal damage hits do not require any type of Saves unless they were used to inflinct non-lethal damage.&nbsp; Therefore this may make unarmed attacks too powerful but I do not think so because the DC threshold would be so low (1d3 for a punch) until the attacker had quite a few unarmed attacking feats.Option 2Make the non-lethal damage cumulative during an individual encounter.&nbsp; When it equals or exceeds the targets Constitution, roll a Fortitude Save (DC=15).&nbsp; Failure results in a stun as described in the rules.&nbsp; For each subsequent attack where the target sustains nl damage continue to make a Fortitude Save if the character is still standing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="redkobold, post: 1105139, member: 2585"] I just read through d20 Modern and I really am impressed. I thought the writing and presentation were superb. I was only unhappy about one thing...nonlethal damage. The idea that two normal people could pummel each other endlessly with no effect (unless they struck one special critical hit maximum damage strike and the opponent had a low Constitution). Even with the critical hit, the opponent could still pass a save. Does this bother anyone else? I thought that I had read this wrong but the wording seems to imply using nonlethal damage of an individual attack. What are some alternatives? This may move this post to the House Rules but here is what I came up with. Option 1 Every time a target sustains nonlethal damage, he must make a Fortitude Save (DC=nonlethal damage). Since the damage is low, in most cases, he will pass. If the Fortitude Save is passed there is no effect. If it is failed, the target is Stunned for 1 round. If a Stunned target sustains nl damage , another Fortitude Save is required (DC=5+non lethal damage). If passed, target remains stunned 1 more round. If failed, target is knocked Unconcious 1d4+1 rounds. If an Unconcious target sustanins nl damage, another Fort Save is required (DC=10+nl dmg). If passed, target remains unconcious +1 more rounds. If failed, treat as if target has sustained Massive Damage (reduced to -1 hit points). The break in the logic here is that normal damage hits do not require any type of Saves unless they were used to inflinct non-lethal damage. Therefore this may make unarmed attacks too powerful but I do not think so because the DC threshold would be so low (1d3 for a punch) until the attacker had quite a few unarmed attacking feats. Option 2 Make the non-lethal damage cumulative during an individual encounter. When it equals or exceeds the targets Constitution, roll a Fortitude Save (DC=15). Failure results in a stun as described in the rules. For each subsequent attack where the target sustains nl damage continue to make a Fortitude Save if the character is still standing. [/QUOTE]

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