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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 1106835" data-attributes="member: 172">takyris, I know I am never going to persuade you of the wonkiness of the system, but for the benefit of those who haven't seen my refutation of your defense before:If you beat a guy to -2, he will be losing hp until he makes a save. If he takes 8 more, he will be dead. This is not the same as being knocked out.Battering with soft fists typically does not cause the same sort of life threatening trauma and bleeding that knife and gunshot wounds do. That is a very bad simulation.True, but largely irrelevant. That explains why they do more damage, but we already understood that. It still doesn't explain why brawlers who aren't professional boxers can scuffle all day and not do a thing to one another.It's fairly easy to design a character who can, but again, a relatively normal human should not require a load of feats to meaningfully engage in fisticuffs. I did that (and had the same done to me) when I was in elementary school.This is nitpicking the abstraction level of the system, and holding it to a standard that your argument doesn't hold to. Professional boxers like you alledge should be the only ones eligible to impair opponents via unarmed combat are much more likely to break bones than untrained fighters; that'swhy they wear gloves. You are pegging a convenient  abstraction that doesn't really help your case any more than it does ours.This is, to me, the tail wagging the dog. This "flavor text reassignment" is a rationalization that you may be comfortable with, but many of us  see that the behavior the system creates as is does not jive with the behavior that we reasonably expect from a fisticuffs type engagement (cinematic or not.)</blockquote>

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