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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7490727" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>I am currently skimming over this particular paper (<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982209016947" target="_blank">Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians</a>). Its comments are normal enough and, in fact, repeat what this thread is also is saying.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To review the scientific issues, all of this concerns the Stone Age in Scandinavia.</p><p></p><p>In Scandinavia, Pitted Ware material culture flourishes roughly 3300 to 2300 BCE and Battle-Axe material culture flourishes roughly 2800 to 2300 BCE. In other words, they coexist for about 500 years.</p><p></p><p>(By the way, on the island of Gotland, the paper says Pitted Ware extends to at least 2000 BCE.)</p><p></p><p>This paper contributes data correlating Pitted Ware culture to specific matrilineal mtDNA (mitochondrion-chromosomal). But it corroborates similar findings in other papers that identify Pitted Ware culture with patrilineal yDNA I2 (y-chromosomal). Roughly speaking, the patrilineal line helps archeologists figure out where a population group is migrating, while the matrilineal line helps archeologists figure out which other populations have the most interaction.</p><p></p><p>The yDNA I2 haplogroup still exists in Scandinavia today but in low non-modal frequencies. From other papers, it is known, a few human remains from roughly 7500 to 4000 BCE are also yDNA I2 (arriving and meeting in Scandinavia from different vectors). So, Pitted Ware represents a culture of Stone Age hunter-gatherers who mostly resisted the innovations of Battle-Axe culture. They eventually could not sustain a larger population thus dwindled in relative numbers and merged into the larger population. Hence I2 descendants are still part of Scandinavia today, even if in low frequencies.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, the contemporary Battle-Axe culture in Scandinavia represents significant changes in demographics that occur in the Neolithic Period. This paper suggests, based on mtDNA evidence, a different genepool arrives in the Neolithic Period (or Post-Neolithic as this papers allows) that is responsible for the change in Battle-Axe culture. As I mentioned in this thread, R1a is this neolithic arrival.</p><p></p><p>(Note, the methodology of the paper has serious limitations. It must extrapolate indirectly because of the scarcity of DNA in good condition. For example, one would like to see DNA samples of Pitted Ware culture, Funnel Beaker culture, and Battle-Axe culture from the same locations where they are coexisting. But these are unavailable. Also the use of mtDNA mutations that are not-yet organized into the detailed subclades is a kind of shotgun approach depending on limited information about the mtDNA. For example, the mtDNA relates to the Baltics, but is this because their mothers are from there, meaning there is admixture with contemporary ethnic groups, or is it because 3000 years earlier, founding populations came from there, meaning there is no admixture with contemporary ethnic groups. When the mtDNA becomes better understood, such answers become clearer. When more and more complete DNA samples become available, answers become clearer. For example, Scandinavian archeologists need to confirm when and how yDNA I1 enters Scandinavia. Even so, the paper considers the limited evidence judiciously and extrapolates useful conclusions.)</p><p></p><p>So. This paper is fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As the Norse World thread mentions, it is Battle-Axe culture (not Pitted Ware culture) that introduces the Proto-Indo-European language, whence the Nordic Bronze Age parent language. The arrival of R1a catalyzes Battle-Axe culture, but the culture itself develops out of a blending with other haplogroups as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 7490727, member: 58172"] I am currently skimming over this particular paper ([URL="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982209016947"]Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians[/URL]). Its comments are normal enough and, in fact, repeat what this thread is also is saying. To review the scientific issues, all of this concerns the Stone Age in Scandinavia. In Scandinavia, Pitted Ware material culture flourishes roughly 3300 to 2300 BCE and Battle-Axe material culture flourishes roughly 2800 to 2300 BCE. In other words, they coexist for about 500 years. (By the way, on the island of Gotland, the paper says Pitted Ware extends to at least 2000 BCE.) This paper contributes data correlating Pitted Ware culture to specific matrilineal mtDNA (mitochondrion-chromosomal). But it corroborates similar findings in other papers that identify Pitted Ware culture with patrilineal yDNA I2 (y-chromosomal). Roughly speaking, the patrilineal line helps archeologists figure out where a population group is migrating, while the matrilineal line helps archeologists figure out which other populations have the most interaction. The yDNA I2 haplogroup still exists in Scandinavia today but in low non-modal frequencies. From other papers, it is known, a few human remains from roughly 7500 to 4000 BCE are also yDNA I2 (arriving and meeting in Scandinavia from different vectors). So, Pitted Ware represents a culture of Stone Age hunter-gatherers who mostly resisted the innovations of Battle-Axe culture. They eventually could not sustain a larger population thus dwindled in relative numbers and merged into the larger population. Hence I2 descendants are still part of Scandinavia today, even if in low frequencies. Meanwhile, the contemporary Battle-Axe culture in Scandinavia represents significant changes in demographics that occur in the Neolithic Period. This paper suggests, based on mtDNA evidence, a different genepool arrives in the Neolithic Period (or Post-Neolithic as this papers allows) that is responsible for the change in Battle-Axe culture. As I mentioned in this thread, R1a is this neolithic arrival. (Note, the methodology of the paper has serious limitations. It must extrapolate indirectly because of the scarcity of DNA in good condition. For example, one would like to see DNA samples of Pitted Ware culture, Funnel Beaker culture, and Battle-Axe culture from the same locations where they are coexisting. But these are unavailable. Also the use of mtDNA mutations that are not-yet organized into the detailed subclades is a kind of shotgun approach depending on limited information about the mtDNA. For example, the mtDNA relates to the Baltics, but is this because their mothers are from there, meaning there is admixture with contemporary ethnic groups, or is it because 3000 years earlier, founding populations came from there, meaning there is no admixture with contemporary ethnic groups. When the mtDNA becomes better understood, such answers become clearer. When more and more complete DNA samples become available, answers become clearer. For example, Scandinavian archeologists need to confirm when and how yDNA I1 enters Scandinavia. Even so, the paper considers the limited evidence judiciously and extrapolates useful conclusions.) So. This paper is fine. As the Norse World thread mentions, it is Battle-Axe culture (not Pitted Ware culture) that introduces the Proto-Indo-European language, whence the Nordic Bronze Age parent language. The arrival of R1a catalyzes Battle-Axe culture, but the culture itself develops out of a blending with other haplogroups as well. [/QUOTE]
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