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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8933143" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Then you're using &quot;shallow&quot; far more narrowly than I am.&nbsp; This site is full of people whoconsider the entire rest of the hobby something that rides in D&amp;D's wake.&nbsp; As such, their premise about how &quot;important&quot; everything else is is going to be foreshortened, even to the degree they know about other elements of it.As such their perception of the &quot;importance&quot; of Apocalype World or RuneQuest is going to be seen through the lens of D&amp;D--which means it usually is going to be seen as &quot;not much&quot; even though both have lead to pretty sizable ecosystems of games that have spun off of their systemic (and sometimes stylistic) approaches.&nbsp; Because they're not very visible to people who primarily and overwhelmingly just do D&amp;D.I'd be willing to make a side bet that there are people who participate in discussion around here regularly who are primarily familiar with some games that are relatively well-known outside the D&amp;D-sphere primarily by hearsay on this board.&nbsp; Though you don't see it as much here (because of the built-in biases of ENWorld) you also see it with other limited ecosystems to a lesser degree (I've met BRP fans who only have the vaguest idea what a FATE based game is), and they aren't necessarily people who wont want to talk about game design; they just talk about it from a pretty narrow perspective.(Note: My own perspective is not extremely wide, but more in that a rather large number of games are doing things and presenting virtues I actively don't want.&nbsp; But I'm at least capable of understanding that's a personal view and not a law of nature).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8933143, member: 7026617"] Then you're using "shallow" far more narrowly than I am. This site is full of people whoconsider the entire rest of the hobby something that rides in D&D's wake. As such, their premise about how "important" everything else is is going to be foreshortened, even to the degree they know about other elements of it. As such their perception of the "importance" of Apocalype World or RuneQuest is going to be seen through the lens of D&D--which means it usually is going to be seen as "not much" even though both have lead to pretty sizable ecosystems of games that have spun off of their systemic (and sometimes stylistic) approaches. Because they're not very visible to people who primarily and overwhelmingly just do D&D. I'd be willing to make a side bet that there are people who participate in discussion around here regularly who are primarily familiar with some games that are relatively well-known outside the D&D-sphere primarily by hearsay on this board. Though you don't see it as much here (because of the built-in biases of ENWorld) you also see it with other limited ecosystems to a lesser degree (I've met BRP fans who only have the vaguest idea what a FATE based game is), and they aren't necessarily people who wont want to talk about game design; they just talk about it from a pretty narrow perspective. (Note: My own perspective is not extremely wide, but more in that a rather large number of games are doing things and presenting virtues I[I] actively don't want[/I]. But I'm at least capable of understanding that's a personal view and not a law of nature). [/QUOTE]

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