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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9672672" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Good but better with heavy armor.  Also if 1 point of AC is not a big deal, then instead of PAM if you get Dual Wielder and Heavy Armor you can have the same AC as that half plate+shield guy while having 2 more attacks (one more than the PAM guy) and you can  get 2 more attacks from round 1 if you forgo Shillelagh and still get one more attack on the 1st round with Shilleleagh.Yes it does.  It is the weapon not the attack that matters for Wrathful Smite in the 2024 rules.It works with any melee weapon which includes melee weapons with the thrown property (Javelin, Hand Axe, Spear, Dagger, trident).It does not work with Ranged weapons like darts or crossbows.This is not true and there are posts on this board about it.  Every DM I have played with since the rules were published allowed it. I did not realize and initially said no in one of my games, but when presented with the wording corrected it.Here is a thread on it, which reenforces that most ENworld posters accept the new rule mechanics:[EMBED content="thread-711701"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/paladins-can-smite-on-ranged-attacks-with-thrown-melee-weapons-now.711701/[/EMBED]Yes you can.  But Wrathful Smite is much more effective on the first round of combat and this is a build that is built around Wrathful Smite.  The same is true for Shillelagh, it is much more effective on the 1st round.Even if you start in melee WS is still much more effective if used on the first round because with a failed save it imposes Frightened immediatly, right out of the gate, instead of the second or later round meaning fewer enemy attacks without disadvantage.  This is aside from using it at range, which makes it even more effective and is much easier on the 1st round.This is even more significant because the save against Wrathful Smite is always at disadvantage after level 10.It is disadvantage and restrictions to movement for one more turn which is generally between 20% and 30% of an entire combat.It is not incorrect.your base damage at level 11 on a fighter with a Shilleleagh and 20 Intelligence is 3d12+2d6+15 (Truestrike, Attack, Attack).  This is 41 damage using your bonus action on the first turn.Damage with a rapier is 3d8+2d6+11 (Truestrike, Attack, Attack).  This is 31 damage, without using your bonus action.The difference is 10 DPR before Vex is considered and this is level 11, where it is highest.  At level 12 Strength or Dex goes to 18.Also what if you start too far away to melee on round 1?  Are you still going to use Shilleleagh instead of Tactical Shift?I wasn't counting PAM, but if you are maxing intelligence and getting Shadow Touched and Warcaster you are not getting PAM until 12th level anyway and if you are not maxing intelligence first than you are splitting Strength/Dexterity and Intelligence which was supposedly the main reason to get Shillelagh.You also are not using PAM until the second round of combat and you are not using it if you can't reach enemies to melee because you will be using tactical shift instead.Which brings up another bonus action conflict!  Wrathful Smite, PAM, Tactical Shift all require bonus actions, so does Misty Step if you get it.  You spent 3 feats getting things that rely on the same action economy to be effective.You get the feat for Shilleleagh at level 1.  Part of making it effective is  maxing intelligence.  On a point buy PC that starts with a 17 Intelligence and 15 attack stat:Level 1-4 if you use your bonus action, you do the exact same damage as a Rapier does before Vex and wothout a bonus.  When you consider Vex you are substantially lower (18 Int Level 4)Level 5-6 you do slightly more damage (4 DPR) than a plain Rapier if you can close to melee on round 1. When you consider Vex and starting combat where you need to use Tactical Shift most of the time you are going to do less in play IME.   Also when you consider starting position you are averaging lower on the first turn, which is the most important turn. (19 Int level 6).Level 7 Your extra damage is down to 3 DPR vs a plain rapier as War Magic comes online. When you consider Vex and Tactical Shift you are still behind in most battles.Level 8-10 vs a plain Rapier you are back up to 4 DPR and now for the first time about equal to a Rapier.  (20 Int level 8)Level 11:  This is the first time you are actually doing more damage and at this point it is 10DPR before considering Vex or using another bonus action.Level 11-20 you will be ahead, but not by by a lot in play, certainly not enough to counter having a more effective origin feat for the first 10 levels of the game.</blockquote>

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