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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9674590" data-attributes="member: 7030563">The main problem with PAM that early is it boosts Strength or Dex while Shilleleagh is using Intelligence.Going with a straight standard Fighter PAM build to Strength 20 does substantially better damage at level 7 leaving Intelligence at 16, especially when you consider you don't pay the bonus action tax.Shilleleagh PAM vs Strength PAMattack 1:  d10+4(mod)+2(dueling) vs d8+5+2 (tied, but with a slightly better chance to hit with strength)attack 2:  d10+4(mod)+2(dueling)+3.5(true strike)  vs d8+3+2+3.5 (Shilleleagh 2 DPR ahead)bonus attack round 1: 0 vs 1d4+5+2 (Shilleleagh 9.5 DPR behind)bonus action attack:  d4+4(mod)+2(dueling) vs d4+5+2 (Shilleleagh 1DPR behind every round after 1st)But if you are doing this it is better with just getting strength, and you get 2 attempts on the 1st round.Wrathful Smite is far better in play on an Eldritch Knight because it is not concentration and it does not take an action to cast and it is generally a more difficult save to make.Wrathful smite is cast on a hit which comes with part of an attack so the target always has disadvantage on that save (after level 10).Control spells are most effective early in a fight (with Wrathful Smite ideally at range, but still effective close), Web and THL are generally more effective spells than Wrathful Smite, but casting them on round 1, when they are most effective, means enemies do not have disadvantage unless you action surge and attack them first.  They are also concentration spells, which wrathful smite isn't, meaning it can't be broken by damage and you can use it more than once even if it or another spell is already going.The reason I said Tactical Master was so useful with wrathful smite is due to the movement limitations imposed by the Frightened condition.The thing with Wrathful Smite is you have a control spell while also having an attack, you don't have to give up one for the other and they always have disadvantage on the first save (after level 10).THL is a better comparison because it is a single target and a 1st level spell.  I also think in the 2024 rules, upcast THL is generally a better 2nd level spell than Web is.  Not always but usually. If you compare to THL on 1st round with and without action surge:THL:  The enemy makes a normal saves or become incapacitated (concentration)Wrathful Smite:  Do around 20 damage total and then save at disadvantage or become frightened.With WS you can repeat on round 2 and round 3 on other enemies because it is not concentration.If you use action surge you can actually get off two control spells with WS while still attacking (once a day):THL:  Action Surge-attack then action-THL with disadvantageWrathful Smite and THL: Action surge, split your attacks, bad guy 1 Wrathful Smite with Disadvantage, bad guy 2 THL with disadvantage (assuming at least 2 hits)The best Nova of the Eldritch Knight I've seen in tier 3 is actually with both Fey touched and Shadow Touched and using the following combo all in one turn:  Action Surge (attack), Bonus action (wrathful Smite-disadvantage on save), Action (Dissonant Whispers-disadvantage on save), Warcaster spell AOO all on the same enemyWith both feats you can do that twice a day with 1 short rest using a Cantrip with the Warcaster AOO or once a day using a third leveled spell with the Warcaster AOO.  In 1 turn it comes out to War Magic attack action, +4d6 damage+frightened+moved back their movement + lost reaction and you still have one more spell you would have cast on them.</blockquote>

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