Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- Pocket Sized Adventures! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed for 1-2 game sessions.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ancoulainn" data-source="post: 9869155" data-attributes="member: 7056539">Actually, that is exactly what Enchantment spells do and what the Charmed condition is. The Charmed condition says "The charmer has Advantage on any ability check to interact with you socially." which is identical with how the Influence Action works with Friendly targets which says "You have Advantage on an ability check to influence a Friendly creature." If you cast Suggestion or otherwise charm a target in combat, it changes its disposition towards you from hostile to friendly. Ergo, it clearly changes how the target thinks. That's the whole point of Enchantment spells.Which is not necessary as written. RAW, the objective has to be achievable. Now, you can get all philosophical and debate whether you can make yourself willing or make yourself believe something and you may have a point here. But that point is irrelevant if it doesn't come from DnD-rules and definitions. This is a fantasy game.Regardless, there is a different argument for your position in there that requires only careful reading and no philosophical discussion. The Influence Action differentiates between willing, unwilling, and hesitant creatures. "Willing" is defined as "your urging aligns with the monster’s desires" and due to the previously mentioned similarity between Charmed and Friendly, you can deduce that a Charmed target isn't considered willing to give into Nystul's unless that coincidentally aligns with its desires.However, you can also turn that around and say that the desire of a charmed monster under the effect of Suggestion is to comply with the suggestion because it says "The Charmed target pursues the suggestion to the best of its ability." And that would make the monster willing according to the definition in the PHB because its desires now align with the urging.But you could also argue based on Crawford's ruling with regards to the Dissonant Whispers-Booming Blade interaction. Booming Blade states "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends." and Crawford has said that the movement from Dissonant Whispers is not willing but forced movement, but that's unofficial and therefore not a good argument.In short, if you can't argue based on the definitions given by the DnD-rules, you don't have an argument. For example, "Any use of enchantment to get someone to do something they otherwise wouldn’t do is by definition overriding someone’s willingness." is found nowhere in the DnD-rules in therefore irrelevant, even if true.It's not clever wordplay. It's accurate reading paired with creativity. You can certainly argue whether someone can be forced to be willing and then have a table discussion over psychological phenomena like the Stockholm Syndrome and beyond, but as interesting as that may be, it misses the point if it's not in the rules and no "obvious", "common sense", "RAI", or whatever can change that. Only a DM-ruling can.It also has nothing to do with "winning DnD". A creative mind wants to see what is possible with the tools they're given beyond the obvious. Given the power of certain spells and features which allow parties do annihilate villains like Strahd or Vecna in a single round, if "winning" were the objective, you wouldn't need any of this.But regardless, so, they instead Planar Bind two or more Fiends, Celestials, Elementals, or Fey to avoid the discussion. And if you don't encounter such a creature, you just summon it. You can upcast Summon Greater Demon to summon a CR 10 Fiend, so a Yochlol works. And then you use Planar Binding on them. Not quite as strong as an Adult Dragon individually, but it's the same CR as a Young Red Dragon. And Yochlol can shapeshift into a humanoid form which can also be quite convenient. And if you upcast Planar Binding to increase its duration, you can do that every day as well and get yourself a little Yochlol army which may be better for you than just two dragons. And for earlier levels, you just use Barlgura.</blockquote>

Verification