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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9869263" data-attributes="member: 6879661">The mechanical effect may be the same between Friendly Attitude and Charm. However one is based on how a creature feels towards you and one brute forces this to over ride this against the persons will. That’s why they get a save against Charm Person. I dont understand how you can think that an effect that a person makes a save against somehow makes them willing. You haven’t changed how they think, you have bypassed it. We know this isn’t the case because when the spell ends the persons normal actions reassert and they don’t forget what they have done unless other magic is used to erase this.I suspect we’re never going to agree on this, though, It’s a play style that’s an anathema to me. Luckily it is extremely rare outside of forums as it is usually impossible to find DMs willing to tolerate unlimited Magen, wish simulacrum loop or pet bound dragons. Such DMs are rare as hens teeth. However somehow we end up in this discussions as if these play styles are par for the course. Most DMs will say, you’ve ran out of quicksilver, or someone cast dispel magic, or there are no Duergar Stonelords to hand. Or possibly just… stop that at this table please.These exploits normally rely on the assumption that if it is in a book that it is in the DMs game and lets be honest that is almost never the case. They’re the TTRPG equivalent of a computer game glitch. When it’s between you, your playstation and God, who cares if you get infinite XP. When this stuff hits a live table though it evaporates pretty quick because people just don’t tolerate it, unless they either enjoy the thought exercise of this too or are inexperienced. Either way it doesn’t unusually short lived.You can absolutely do whatever you like at your table but I guess a lot of DMs - particularly new - will come to forums searching to see if something is accepted and normal and it’s really important that they see dissenting opinions and don’t feel obliged to accept this stuff as expected.Using enchantments to override the Willing Creature requirement is definitely on the list of things DMs can push back on without feeling like they are being unfair.</blockquote>

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