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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3499828" data-attributes="member: 22882">I don't believe you need the DMM cleric build described above, no.  For one thing, I'm not actually familiar with that particular build.With that said, the best D&D campaign I ever played in chewed up and spit out optimized characters, and most anything below their level was essentially a drain on party resources.  Almost every encounter was EL +6-+8 or so, and surviving even one session meant you were both lucky and good. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  The GM had a compelling plot and some intense roleplaying encounters wrapped around these incredibly challenging battles, but at the end of the day, you earned ongoing participation in the plot by overcoming intense design challenges at the character creation phase and tactical challenges at the games table.It's not how I'd want every game to go, or even every game of D&D, but it was an absolute blast while it lasted, and for that campaign, if you weren't breaking combos from 3-4 books, chances were you were going to be monster chow.</blockquote>