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Not happy with playtest goes through it piece by piece
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<blockquote data-quote="Transformer" data-source="post: 5991570" data-attributes="member: 70008"><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1" target="_blank">#1</a> Solves <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2" target="_blank">#2</a> . There will be many more backgrounds.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have no particular comment on monster design; I haven't looked at it much yet and it's something that particularly needs playtesting and not backseat speculation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Rolling stats <em>will</em> be the first option presented in the rulebook. It was for decades. And the nine alignments are never going to go away again; they are probably the most iconic thing about D&D. Are they silly and arbitrary? Well, of course. But ask someone who's barely heard of the game and knows nothing about how tabletop RPGs are played, and there's a good chance the one thing he knows is the nine alignments.</p><p></p><p>You are right, of course, that we need an official point buy, and they should roll it out soon. I'll be miffed if it's not in the next playtest packet.</p><p></p><p>Classes</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The lack of base attack bonus advancement for the cleric is troubling. In-combat healing seems to be de-emphasized significantly, so I am less bothered by spells that take a standard action to cast. We could use more weaker buff and healing spells that don't take a standard action, though, for people who want them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As they said on the Wizards forums, Combat Superiority dice need to refresh at the end of the Fighter's turn, not the beginning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed that the designers absolutely must keep sneak attack under control and make sure that there is no reasonable way optimizers can get it every turn. Everyone should have slightly higher starting hp than they have in this new playtest packet.</p><p></p><p>I can't agree, though, on Rogues as skill monkeys. The setup is fine. Every other class can become skilled in a nice little set of whatever type of skills they want through Backgrounds. Rogues get to be skilled in a lot more skills. Take away their advantage as skill monkeys and they lose most of their niche and their appeal. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Vancian magic has innumerable fans. It's absolutely not going to go away. As to Spell DCs, they just need to keep the math tight.</p><p></p><p>Also agreed that we need to see the non-vancian options for arcane spellcasters soon, for the people who want a less Daily system.</p><p></p><p>DM Guidelines</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I avoid this debate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We're all assuming that the lightning fast XP advancement is just for the sake of the playtest, so that people can quickly try out all 5 levels without fudging on the written rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. The most mundane armors vary in cost as expected, and who's to say that top top armor in each class (exotic animal hide, dragonscale, full plate) don't cost about the same?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Disagree again. If you're a Dexterity-based fighter, wielding a 2-hander only gets you one extra step up in damage, which means an average increase of one damage. 1 AC > 1 damage, so if anything a shield is the clear choice. If you're a Dwarf Strength fighter, wielding a 2-hander gets you 1.5 extra damage (1d10 vs. 2d6). Again, 1 AC is probably > 1.5 damage. If you're a Human Strength fighter, it's generally 1 AC vs. 2 damage. The 2 damage is maybe a bit better at low levels, but as you level up and damage numbers inflate more and more, then again, a shield will be the clear choice.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>With ranged attacks getting dexterity to damage (as they should), the damage is fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are all kinds of concrete situations that always trigger advantage and disadvantage. Advantage/disadvantage are pulling double duty as both objective features of the game system and as the DM's standard tool for adjucation. The DM <em>does</em> need a rule for adjucation, even in the most player-empowering system. In previous editions it was +/-2. Now it's advantage/disadvantage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I... am still sort of with you here. 5th edition has yet to convince me that eliminating the minor action was a good idea. 4th edition's action economy was one of the best things about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting. I've never even heard someone request that before. But if healing were just limited by encounter rather than by day, wouldn't every party just use healing kits and heal up after every single encounter? It wouldn't be much different from everyone just getting all their hp back at the end of every fight.</p><p></p><p>Races</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed that humans are too strong, and it's thematically bad that they are, on average, as good at every single ability score as the race that specializes in it. Nerf humans; the rest are fine.</p><p></p><p>Specialties</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well <em>yeah</em>, it's a playtest packet a few dozen pages long.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They're plenty useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, it's pretty damn powerful. Not sure exactly what should be done about that. I think perhaps healing potions need to cost the full 50gp to make, so that it's a matter of convenience to make one on the fly rather than "any party with a healer has twice as many healing potions as everyone else." Healer's Touch just needs to be toned down somehow. Maybe it increases the die by one step whenever you're involved in healing? Eh, that's clunky.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Most</em> of the specialties do relatively little. They're a distant fourth to class race and background. Jack-of-all-Trades is fine for people who really want training in that one really useful skill. Guardian is <em>supposed</em> to be only one small part of the "defender."</p><p></p><p>I doubt aggro-based (i.e., Marking) defenders are coming back. I wouldn't blame you for being miffed about that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>5 hp/3 levels is fine, and on par with most of the specialties. It is a bit boring, admittedly.</p><p></p><p>Spells</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And thank goodness, because high level quadric wizards were stupidly ridiculous in AD&D/3E.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I... am too lazy to look up the exact change, so I have nothing to say.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lots of people want just-off-the-farm kind of fantasy; we'll have see to see if level 5-15 can handle heroic fantasy better, with flashier Combat Superiority maneuvers, flashier 6th level Specialty Feats, and the like, Hopefully it will.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter has a heck of a lot more tactical choices than he had in 3rd. The Wizard is about where he was in 3rd. I assume you're comparing to 4th? Yeah, I admit if I were a huge fan of the 4th edition fighter or rogue or even cleric, I would want more options to sacrifice straight up base attack bonus or damage for special abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Transformer, post: 5991570, member: 70008"] [URL=http://www.enworld.org/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1[/URL] Solves [URL=http://www.enworld.org/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2[/URL] . There will be many more backgrounds. I have no particular comment on monster design; I haven't looked at it much yet and it's something that particularly needs playtesting and not backseat speculation. Rolling stats [i]will[/i] be the first option presented in the rulebook. It was for decades. And the nine alignments are never going to go away again; they are probably the most iconic thing about D&D. Are they silly and arbitrary? Well, of course. But ask someone who's barely heard of the game and knows nothing about how tabletop RPGs are played, and there's a good chance the one thing he knows is the nine alignments. You are right, of course, that we need an official point buy, and they should roll it out soon. I'll be miffed if it's not in the next playtest packet. Classes The lack of base attack bonus advancement for the cleric is troubling. In-combat healing seems to be de-emphasized significantly, so I am less bothered by spells that take a standard action to cast. We could use more weaker buff and healing spells that don't take a standard action, though, for people who want them. As they said on the Wizards forums, Combat Superiority dice need to refresh at the end of the Fighter's turn, not the beginning. Agreed that the designers absolutely must keep sneak attack under control and make sure that there is no reasonable way optimizers can get it every turn. Everyone should have slightly higher starting hp than they have in this new playtest packet. I can't agree, though, on Rogues as skill monkeys. The setup is fine. Every other class can become skilled in a nice little set of whatever type of skills they want through Backgrounds. Rogues get to be skilled in a lot more skills. Take away their advantage as skill monkeys and they lose most of their niche and their appeal. Vancian magic has innumerable fans. It's absolutely not going to go away. As to Spell DCs, they just need to keep the math tight. Also agreed that we need to see the non-vancian options for arcane spellcasters soon, for the people who want a less Daily system. DM Guidelines I avoid this debate. We're all assuming that the lightning fast XP advancement is just for the sake of the playtest, so that people can quickly try out all 5 levels without fudging on the written rules. I disagree. The most mundane armors vary in cost as expected, and who's to say that top top armor in each class (exotic animal hide, dragonscale, full plate) don't cost about the same? Disagree again. If you're a Dexterity-based fighter, wielding a 2-hander only gets you one extra step up in damage, which means an average increase of one damage. 1 AC > 1 damage, so if anything a shield is the clear choice. If you're a Dwarf Strength fighter, wielding a 2-hander gets you 1.5 extra damage (1d10 vs. 2d6). Again, 1 AC is probably > 1.5 damage. If you're a Human Strength fighter, it's generally 1 AC vs. 2 damage. The 2 damage is maybe a bit better at low levels, but as you level up and damage numbers inflate more and more, then again, a shield will be the clear choice. With ranged attacks getting dexterity to damage (as they should), the damage is fine. There are all kinds of concrete situations that always trigger advantage and disadvantage. Advantage/disadvantage are pulling double duty as both objective features of the game system and as the DM's standard tool for adjucation. The DM [i]does[/i] need a rule for adjucation, even in the most player-empowering system. In previous editions it was +/-2. Now it's advantage/disadvantage. I... am still sort of with you here. 5th edition has yet to convince me that eliminating the minor action was a good idea. 4th edition's action economy was one of the best things about it. Interesting. I've never even heard someone request that before. But if healing were just limited by encounter rather than by day, wouldn't every party just use healing kits and heal up after every single encounter? It wouldn't be much different from everyone just getting all their hp back at the end of every fight. Races Agreed that humans are too strong, and it's thematically bad that they are, on average, as good at every single ability score as the race that specializes in it. Nerf humans; the rest are fine. Specialties Well [i]yeah[/i], it's a playtest packet a few dozen pages long. They're plenty useful. Yeah, it's pretty damn powerful. Not sure exactly what should be done about that. I think perhaps healing potions need to cost the full 50gp to make, so that it's a matter of convenience to make one on the fly rather than "any party with a healer has twice as many healing potions as everyone else." Healer's Touch just needs to be toned down somehow. Maybe it increases the die by one step whenever you're involved in healing? Eh, that's clunky. [i]Most[/i] of the specialties do relatively little. They're a distant fourth to class race and background. Jack-of-all-Trades is fine for people who really want training in that one really useful skill. Guardian is [i]supposed[/i] to be only one small part of the "defender." I doubt aggro-based (i.e., Marking) defenders are coming back. I wouldn't blame you for being miffed about that. 5 hp/3 levels is fine, and on par with most of the specialties. It is a bit boring, admittedly. Spells And thank goodness, because high level quadric wizards were stupidly ridiculous in AD&D/3E. I... am too lazy to look up the exact change, so I have nothing to say. Lots of people want just-off-the-farm kind of fantasy; we'll have see to see if level 5-15 can handle heroic fantasy better, with flashier Combat Superiority maneuvers, flashier 6th level Specialty Feats, and the like, Hopefully it will. The fighter has a heck of a lot more tactical choices than he had in 3rd. The Wizard is about where he was in 3rd. I assume you're comparing to 4th? Yeah, I admit if I were a huge fan of the 4th edition fighter or rogue or even cleric, I would want more options to sacrifice straight up base attack bonus or damage for special abilities. [/QUOTE]
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