Not Pickpocketing, but what?

[War Golem]

Hey folks,

In our game the other night, our group was attacked by a vampire who wanted a magic item that my character was carrying in a Bag of Holding at her waist. During the melee, the vampire eventually successfully Dominated the entire party except for my PC. One of the other PCs, a rogue who was Dominated, tried to simply grab the Bag of Holding from me on his initiative.

We were unable to determine what game mechanic exists for such an action. The Pickpocketing skill seemed like it might be appropriate, but not quite. I think we ended up using the grappling rules somehow, but that didn't seem quite right either.

Is there a mechanic for this? How would you guys adjudicate this?

Thanks.

War Golem

 

[mikebr99]

Hey War Golem.
I think you've handled it right...

Pickpocketing can only be used for coin sized objects (DC 10) or small objects (DC 20). I would think a cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size (weighing 15 lbs. min.) would not be classified as a small object.

So wrestling him for it would seem to be the best choice... though if the vampire had control of all of the party, he could have sent all of them to wrestle him to the floor. Or simply asked him to fork it over or my new friends will be teaching you a lesson.

 

[hong]

I'd use the "Strike an Object" rules in the PHB, p.135. In a nutshell, the rogue has to make an attack roll against AC 10 + your Dex mod + your deflection bonus to AC + any other mods (size, cover, etc). You get an AoO in reply.

 

[War Golem]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I just got home and had a chance to read over the "Strike an Object" rules. Those rules all focus on inflicting damage to an object, though, so I'm not sure that is the best mechanic here.

If this situation comes up again, I'm leaning toward using the grapple rules and requiring the attacker, or attackers, to grapple, establish a pin, and then once the pin is established, another successful contested grapple check would allow the taking of the worn or held item.

 

[Crothian]

If the PC were totally unaware of it, I'd still use pickpocket with an increased DC. This would show that thew object was removed without the person realizing.

In combat, I'd use strike an object cause your grabbing the object. Your not really grablling the person, your grabbling the object.

It's a tough one, I'll give you that...

 

[Caliban]

How about this:

You initiate a grapple, but the target's AC is increased by the objects size bonus (you are grapping the object, and since it's "attended" it gets the character's AC plus it's size bonus). You provoke an AoO, and if you get hit, they stopped you from grabbing the object.

If you hit, then you do a grapple check. If they win, you weren't able to establish a hold on the object.

Once the hold is established, it's a strength check to gain control of the object, and additional grapple check to break the grapple and seperate them from the object.

 

[hong]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I just got home and had a chance to read over the "Strike an Object" rules. Those rules all focus on inflicting damage to an object, though, so I'm not sure that is the best mechanic here.

That's all right. Note that the Strike an Object rules don't actually take the AC of the object into account (because it doesn't have any, just a size modifier). So it has broader application than just trying to damage an object.

If you wanted to damage the bag, you would make a damage roll and try to get past its hardness (if any). If you only wanted to grab it, the initial attack roll might be enough.