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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheCrazyMuffinMan" data-source="post: 3670032" data-attributes="member: 53470">They'd probably be good as post-6th feats in E6. As much as I want to agree with the idea, a level 20 character who uses all their normal opportunities (1st level (2x for humans), every 3rd..., every 4th...) to gain an attribute point will gain 12 points total (13 if Human). I wonder if there's any kind of prerequisite that can be added to the great [attribute] feat if it was to become nonepic. Perhaps (Ability score must be no greater than your character level + 10 after taking the feat)?Attribute 18, 10, 14, 201 --, 11, --, --3 --, 12, --, --4 19, 13, 15 ,216 --, 14, 16, --8 20, 15, 17, 229 --, 16, 18, --12A 21, 17, 19, 2312B 22, 18, 20, --15 23, 19, 21, 2416 24, 20, 22, 2518 25, 21, 23, 2620 26, 22, 24, 27If your attribute is 18, the prerequisite cuts the gain potential by 4 points (5 if human). If it is say, 14, the gain potential is 2 less. If it's 10 (11 for humans) or less, gain progression is unhindered. The highest that a powered approach to this feat would take someone is 26 (27 for any race that grants a bonus to the optimized attribute), requiring 8 of the 12 (13) increase opportunities on the way to 20th. Normally, it would be 31 (33 for races with bonuses).If this is still too high even for a L20 PC, the limit could be reduced to (level + 5), so only REALLY bad ability scores can be increased by Great ~ from the start.Attribute 18, 10, 14, 20 (Tighter Restriction)1 --, --, --, --3 --, --, --, --4 19, 13, 15 ,216 --, --, --, --8 20, 14, 16, 229 --, --, --, --12A 21, 15, 17, 2312B --, 16, 18*, --15 --, 17, 19, --16 22, 18, 20, 2418 23, 19, 22, --20 24, 20, 23, 25The tighter restriction would peak this sort of optimization at 25, and is likely preferred. Creatures with a 20 to start couldn't do a thing to their 20'd stat.*- If I remember right, you can take a feat before you take an ability score.A and B are the feat and the normal ability score bonus (in the desired order)</blockquote>

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