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'Nother Psionics PC homebrew for 5e.
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<blockquote data-quote="Chryssis" data-source="post: 6650267" data-attributes="member: 6787279"><p>You answer it in the clarification section, I meant that for a warlock a spell is always cast at the highest slot level, so if the warlock has 3 lvl 5 slots the armor of agathys is cast as a lvl 5 spell (so 25hps and deals 25dmg) not as a lvl 1 spell like when you first took it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was looking at perma-stun from the idea that with multi-level mind you could cast it at the BBEG upto 4x per turn forcing them to use their possibly legendary action, and then still have to pass 3 spell save dc's of upto 20 to not get stunned. -if a seer means they can probably garuntee a few rounds of fails with those portent dice. -from a greedy player point of view I love stuns, they end fights quickly, however since it is a talent/cantrip maybe something that reduces actions (move or attack not both) or reduces speed to zero, the issue with stuns is that as soon as something is stunned it is vulnerable to all sorts of other conditions and extra crit damage from the rest of the party.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think part of the clarification needs to come in the form of specifying how actions are used (i brought this up somewhere and you made a reply but i'm getting confused by the quotes with no context in this reply.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ) ex. some talents use a bonus action like psi-armor, but others use an action like mental whip. a power uses the equivilent action to the spell ie shield is a reaction but haste is an action. (not suggesting this structure but just for the sake of example) with this you can specify that you can use a power and a talent or two talents in the same turn. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>sorry was making a comparison between mindwhip with multi-layered mind and a normal cantrip spell. a cantrip will increase with level so for example a warlocks eldritch blast will start at 1d10 and go upto 4d10 at higher levels, or a bards vicous mockery starts at 1d4 and goes up to 4d4 at lvl 17 so mind whip at 4x 2d4 is twice as much damage as the closest equivalent cantrip (which has a forced movement rider vs a stun)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>IMO It would need to be toned down a lot to come in line with other powers around that level. twin spell has a sorcery point cost and also uses the 2nd spell slot. The issue is that it lets you target your level# of targets instead of 1. so your action economy instantly increases by 17x for a big chunk of very powerful abilities, ie haste, slow, fly, telekinesis, heal, polymorph, it makes you simultaneously the best damage dealer, healer, and buffer (depending on what power ranks you took) - if you still had to expend those power uses that would help limit it but it would still be very very powerful to be able to haste, or fly, or heal your entire party (something that doesn't happen in 5e due to the concentration mechanic)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough, I personally dont like dipping for the powergamer sense of oooh look i get that special power, however I do like it for the RP sense of not every barbarian has the same experience, some are more martial, some more roguish, some more mystical so having a few levels in another class allows them to not only RP that they are a bit of a physical mystic but also gain some powers from it. The way 5e is built, currently, multiclassing is rarely optimal anyways (except maybe wizards taking some cleric or sorcerer since their capstone ability sucks)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It doesn't make it more enticing but specifying what actions different talents/powers use does make more sense. You can look at it from a couple perspectives. 1. If they all take an action : this means you will never use a bonus action, or a reaction (with the exception of opporuntity attack)</p><p>also if they all take an action then you forceably can't attack and then use a power/talent eg. you can't attack and then misty step away you either run away with misty-step or stand and fight.</p><p>2. if talents take a bonus action and powers take an action - you can attack and use a talent, or use a power and a talent each turn (this could also be part of a class feature similar to Eldritch Knight) </p><p>3. each power/talent is specified, ie as a bonus action you can activate psi-armor, as an action you manifest thought shield, as an action you manifest Haste as a rank 3 power, as a reaction you manifest shield as a rank 1 power - so on one turn you could activate psi armor then share it around to your party with thought shield, but you could not use thought shield and haste together since they both take a full action. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>while i think that limiting the spells to their base level is an interesting mechanic for limiting the class (ie the class makes up for that in other ways able to hit more targets with single target, or more versatility etc) it could have some bad character design consequences too. ie things like cure wounds are great at lvl 2, but 1d8 hps at lvl 10-15 is nothing (thus why it would almost always be ranked up)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>K i'm overtired now, i'll look at the rest of your responses tomorrow.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Thanks for the discourse!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chryssis, post: 6650267, member: 6787279"] You answer it in the clarification section, I meant that for a warlock a spell is always cast at the highest slot level, so if the warlock has 3 lvl 5 slots the armor of agathys is cast as a lvl 5 spell (so 25hps and deals 25dmg) not as a lvl 1 spell like when you first took it. I was looking at perma-stun from the idea that with multi-level mind you could cast it at the BBEG upto 4x per turn forcing them to use their possibly legendary action, and then still have to pass 3 spell save dc's of upto 20 to not get stunned. -if a seer means they can probably garuntee a few rounds of fails with those portent dice. -from a greedy player point of view I love stuns, they end fights quickly, however since it is a talent/cantrip maybe something that reduces actions (move or attack not both) or reduces speed to zero, the issue with stuns is that as soon as something is stunned it is vulnerable to all sorts of other conditions and extra crit damage from the rest of the party. I think part of the clarification needs to come in the form of specifying how actions are used (i brought this up somewhere and you made a reply but i'm getting confused by the quotes with no context in this reply.;) ) ex. some talents use a bonus action like psi-armor, but others use an action like mental whip. a power uses the equivilent action to the spell ie shield is a reaction but haste is an action. (not suggesting this structure but just for the sake of example) with this you can specify that you can use a power and a talent or two talents in the same turn. sorry was making a comparison between mindwhip with multi-layered mind and a normal cantrip spell. a cantrip will increase with level so for example a warlocks eldritch blast will start at 1d10 and go upto 4d10 at higher levels, or a bards vicous mockery starts at 1d4 and goes up to 4d4 at lvl 17 so mind whip at 4x 2d4 is twice as much damage as the closest equivalent cantrip (which has a forced movement rider vs a stun) IMO It would need to be toned down a lot to come in line with other powers around that level. twin spell has a sorcery point cost and also uses the 2nd spell slot. The issue is that it lets you target your level# of targets instead of 1. so your action economy instantly increases by 17x for a big chunk of very powerful abilities, ie haste, slow, fly, telekinesis, heal, polymorph, it makes you simultaneously the best damage dealer, healer, and buffer (depending on what power ranks you took) - if you still had to expend those power uses that would help limit it but it would still be very very powerful to be able to haste, or fly, or heal your entire party (something that doesn't happen in 5e due to the concentration mechanic) Fair enough, I personally dont like dipping for the powergamer sense of oooh look i get that special power, however I do like it for the RP sense of not every barbarian has the same experience, some are more martial, some more roguish, some more mystical so having a few levels in another class allows them to not only RP that they are a bit of a physical mystic but also gain some powers from it. The way 5e is built, currently, multiclassing is rarely optimal anyways (except maybe wizards taking some cleric or sorcerer since their capstone ability sucks) It doesn't make it more enticing but specifying what actions different talents/powers use does make more sense. You can look at it from a couple perspectives. 1. If they all take an action : this means you will never use a bonus action, or a reaction (with the exception of opporuntity attack) also if they all take an action then you forceably can't attack and then use a power/talent eg. you can't attack and then misty step away you either run away with misty-step or stand and fight. 2. if talents take a bonus action and powers take an action - you can attack and use a talent, or use a power and a talent each turn (this could also be part of a class feature similar to Eldritch Knight) 3. each power/talent is specified, ie as a bonus action you can activate psi-armor, as an action you manifest thought shield, as an action you manifest Haste as a rank 3 power, as a reaction you manifest shield as a rank 1 power - so on one turn you could activate psi armor then share it around to your party with thought shield, but you could not use thought shield and haste together since they both take a full action. while i think that limiting the spells to their base level is an interesting mechanic for limiting the class (ie the class makes up for that in other ways able to hit more targets with single target, or more versatility etc) it could have some bad character design consequences too. ie things like cure wounds are great at lvl 2, but 1d8 hps at lvl 10-15 is nothing (thus why it would almost always be ranked up) K i'm overtired now, i'll look at the rest of your responses tomorrow.;) Thanks for the discourse! [/QUOTE]
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