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<blockquote data-quote="JDillard" data-source="post: 4409154" data-attributes="member: 67649">I can see what you're saying, but I'm still unsure.&nbsp; -10 penalty is huge, particularly being a contested roll in which the enemy is most likely the same level.&nbsp; If the stealther and perceiver have the same bonuses, an 11+ on the stealth roll means the perceiver loses, all the time.So I can take a standard action with no penalty, or a minor action in which 50% of the time I have no chance of success at all, and the other 50% I have to hope I roll very high and my opponent rolls very low.&nbsp; That doesn't sound like a choice at all.&nbsp;And that, makes me think that they are handled as two separate issues rather than the same issue handled in two different ways.&nbsp; You'll notice that in the targetting the hidden section there's no mention of being able to take a standard action to notice the monster.&nbsp;I think it's a case of combat perception vs non-combat perception, and that they're two entirely different systems.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JDillard, post: 4409154, member: 67649"] I can see what you're saying, but I'm still unsure. -10 penalty is huge, particularly being a contested roll in which the enemy is most likely the same level. If the stealther and perceiver have the same bonuses, an 11+ on the stealth roll means the perceiver loses, all the time. So I can take a standard action with no penalty, or a minor action in which 50% of the time I have no chance of success at all, and the other 50% I have to hope I roll very high and my opponent rolls very low. That doesn't sound like a choice at all. And that, makes me think that they are handled as two separate issues rather than the same issue handled in two different ways. You'll notice that in the targetting the hidden section there's no mention of being able to take a standard action to notice the monster. I think it's a case of combat perception vs non-combat perception, and that they're two entirely different systems. [/QUOTE]

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