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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnLynch" data-source="post: 7686956" data-attributes="member: 6749563">Got the whole "What if the shoe was on the other foot" scenario, how many monster manual creatures require 2 ability score checks plus an attack roll to use any of their standard abilities?How many classes have to succeed in 2 opposed ability score checks plus an attack roll or saving throw? I can't think of any off the top of my head. It just seems to be assassins who are getting shafted like this? If assassinate and death Attack are such overpowered abilities, shouldn't WotC have just given them a different class feature rather than lock it behind 3 rolls (1 passive or opposed, DM choice, 1 opposed and then 1 roll against a set DC).As for "this has always been the rule" I just reread the assassin subclass and the surprised rules in the combat chapter. It is not glaringly obvious that two of the assassin's class features are gatekept behind 3 separate rolls because there is no text that says when surprise ends. I'd expect a casual player to read the assassin, maybe read up on surprise and then decide if they want that class. If they choose that clad I'd expect itMs because those abilities sound cool. Those abilities sound significantly less cool when you get told there's 3 separate Checks the character must succeed on to use that ability (no matter what Magic items they have) and that everyone has the exceptional ability to negate the assassin's class features, that these people get two chances at negating it and they only have to succeed on one of those checks (whereas the assassin must succeed on all 3). I'd expect the player to say "that sucks, I'll play something else" and likely then ask if their next character will have certain class features that require 3 separate (but successful) rolls that are opposed by 2 separate rolls (onl 1 must succeed). Once the group realises only assassins have such an ability I expect it will become player banned at my table.</blockquote>

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