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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnLynch" data-source="post: 7686963" data-attributes="member: 6749563">Has anyone Mathed it out and posted the results?I was expecting a class that could stealth around, scout ahead, and when it's flavourful, get off a really decent sneak attack (likely against a lone enemy to try to help the assassin not raise an alarm). It looks like that's what you get when you read the class and then read how surprise works.That's great and all. But that's not what I thought we were getting with the assassin.Well applying the rules as dictated in the PHB isn't really redesigning the combat round around the assassin. Everyone is actually affected by this implementation of surprise. It's just the assassin who dedicates two entire class features around the surprise rules.There's nothing flavourful about making a class so undesirable that people who want to play assassins instead decide to play any class except the one that has a subclass dedicated to the trope.No-one in my 5th edition group goes online either before or after making their character to see if their build is "teh win!!!"No, they'd be powerful abilities even if they weren't locked behind 3 separate rolls (1 opposed, 2 against a DC). In fact, they'd be more powerful. But I'm a assuming you meant they're allowed to be so powerful because they're locked behind 3 rolls. And sure, I get that. But wouldn't it have been better design to not lock them behind 3 rolls but instead make them less powerful? "Your crit range becomes X in the first round of combat" would have captured the same flavour without requiring an unprecedented 3 rolls just to use.Did WotC decide to lock away another class feature (or feat or spell) behind 3 rolls to take effect?They small chance of using those abilities successfully might "balance" them out, but that doesn't make them fun. Great! So now to use my two class features slightly more reliably I have to sink 3 feats into this. Man, the math behind this better show this ability is friggen awesome.No after the attack is declared, but before it is resolved. The declaration of the attack is a declaration by the payer that [its time to commence the combat round sequence].Your ogres all have the charge feat? What CR are they?HA!</blockquote>

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