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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7687302" data-attributes="member: 16814">I'm interested how the surprise auto-crit is not a main ability.  How do you come to this conclusion?  It's in the same paragraph as the advantage on initiative ability, and it's under the heading 'assassinate' for a sub-class called 'assassin.'  I follow your argument on initiative and surprise (don't agree, but I easily follow) and that makes sense, but I have zero idea where you're coming from in labelling the auto-crit as a sub-tier ability and relatively unimportant.  Having read the rules just now, I'm really struggling to come up with any way you can make that argument that isn't entirely subject and, like, just your opinion, man (h/t the Dude).  It's certainly not labeled 'this is the main part of the ability and this is the not main part of the ability.'And it is three checks.  It's whatever opposed check is needed to establish surprise (generally stealth, but deception, perform, whatever could apply), then it's the initiative check, then it's the attack role.  It's gated behind three checks, which could use different abilities (CHA to deceive, DEX for initiative, and STR for attack roll).  Granted, if you ignore initiative, it's still gated behind two checks, but I find that more tolerable, especially since one of them isn't quite as arbitrary and narrative impacting as initiative.I think you have a strong argument re: initiative and surprise.  Stick to that.  Don't ignore rolls or invent a ranking for the two abilities in assassinate.  You're not on strong ground there.</blockquote>

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