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<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7687341" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>Exactly!</p><p></p><p>Initiative models how quickly you react to the change from 'not in combat' to 'in combat', whether you are surprised or not. But if you didn't initiate the combat yourself, then you have to perceive someone else start combat.</p><p></p><p>Surprise models the effects of being unaware that you are in combat. If you don't realise that you're in combat, your reaction doesn't begin. An analogy is a sprinter hearing the starting pistol. As soon as they hear the pistol (or see another sprinter react), then their reaction can begin. This can be measured as the time elapsed between the sound of the pistol reaching their ears to the time they start to move in response.</p><p></p><p>But if they don't hear the starting pistol or notice another sprinter react, they don't move because if they move before the gun, they get disqualified.</p><p></p><p>No matter how fast their reaction speed, if they don't know the race has started, they don't react.</p><p></p><p>In D&D, many things can be the 'starting pistol' which means combat has started: arrow to the knee, hidden assassin leaps into sight and charges, seeing an crossbow bolt fly towards your eye. But if you don't <strong>perceive</strong> that arrow (because it missed, was invisible and silent), don't see the assassin leap out of cover (because he stayed in cover and used a crossbow and his Skulker feat), don't see the crossbow bolt (because you are blind/deaf), then you don't know you are in combat and your reaction hasn't begun. If you cannot perceive the bolt, you cannot catch it even if your initiative total would mean you <em>could</em> catch missiles that you <em>can</em> see. Being hit by the arrow lets you know that you're in combat (!), but by then it's too late to catch it. </p><p></p><p>'Surprise', according to the combat chapter, equals 'not noticing a threat'. Therefore, you stay surprised until you <strong>do</strong> notice a threat. The speed of your reactions is as futile for the assassin's target as it is for a sprinter who doesn't hear the gun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7687341, member: 6799649"] Exactly! Initiative models how quickly you react to the change from 'not in combat' to 'in combat', whether you are surprised or not. But if you didn't initiate the combat yourself, then you have to perceive someone else start combat. Surprise models the effects of being unaware that you are in combat. If you don't realise that you're in combat, your reaction doesn't begin. An analogy is a sprinter hearing the starting pistol. As soon as they hear the pistol (or see another sprinter react), then their reaction can begin. This can be measured as the time elapsed between the sound of the pistol reaching their ears to the time they start to move in response. But if they don't hear the starting pistol or notice another sprinter react, they don't move because if they move before the gun, they get disqualified. No matter how fast their reaction speed, if they don't know the race has started, they don't react. In D&D, many things can be the 'starting pistol' which means combat has started: arrow to the knee, hidden assassin leaps into sight and charges, seeing an crossbow bolt fly towards your eye. But if you don't [b]perceive[/b] that arrow (because it missed, was invisible and silent), don't see the assassin leap out of cover (because he stayed in cover and used a crossbow and his Skulker feat), don't see the crossbow bolt (because you are blind/deaf), then you don't know you are in combat and your reaction hasn't begun. If you cannot perceive the bolt, you cannot catch it even if your initiative total would mean you [i]could[/i] catch missiles that you [i]can[/i] see. Being hit by the arrow lets you know that you're in combat (!), but by then it's too late to catch it. 'Surprise', according to the combat chapter, equals 'not noticing a threat'. Therefore, you stay surprised until you [b]do[/b] notice a threat. The speed of your reactions is as futile for the assassin's target as it is for a sprinter who doesn't hear the gun. [/QUOTE]
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