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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8220292" data-attributes="member: 4348">1.&nbsp; Thieves actually had 1d6 with AD&amp;D which was before 2e.&nbsp; I have no idea why anyone would complain over 10 years after thieves had gotten 1d6...unless they had only been playing BECMI or BX prior to that.2.&nbsp; Save vs. Death was a Saving Throw in AD&amp;D as well (which was before 2e).3.&nbsp; True.&nbsp; There were many who did not use Proficiency or Secondary Skills.&nbsp; 2e specifically let you grandfather 1e ideas into it...as well as allowing things to be optional without &quot;unbalancing&quot; the system.4.&nbsp; There WERE, however, for many (but not all) ability score checks to resolve things.&nbsp; No skills required.&nbsp; Wish to move quietly...roll under Dex.&nbsp; Hide behind something and not be noticed...roll under DEX.&nbsp; Of course, this was over and on top of Thief skills.&nbsp; 3e sort of combined confusion on the differences between hiding and hiding shadows or moving quietly and moving silently by combing them into one skill.&nbsp; Many already didn't realize the differences but 3e codified it.&nbsp; This type of skill enforcement and focus has continued ever since...though 5e&nbsp; has slightly de-emphasized it with the bounded accuracy and ability to still do things without having a proficiency bonus in it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 8220292, member: 4348"] 1. Thieves actually had 1d6 with AD&D which was before 2e. I have no idea why anyone would complain over 10 years after thieves had gotten 1d6...unless they had only been playing BECMI or BX prior to that. 2. Save vs. Death was a Saving Throw in AD&D as well (which was before 2e). 3. True. There were many who did not use Proficiency or Secondary Skills. 2e specifically let you grandfather 1e ideas into it...as well as allowing things to be optional without "unbalancing" the system. 4. There WERE, however, for many (but not all) ability score checks to resolve things. No skills required. Wish to move quietly...roll under Dex. Hide behind something and not be noticed...roll under DEX. Of course, this was over and on top of Thief skills. 3e sort of combined confusion on the differences between hiding and hiding shadows or moving quietly and moving silently by combing them into one skill. Many already didn't realize the differences but 3e codified it. This type of skill enforcement and focus has continued ever since...though 5e has slightly de-emphasized it with the bounded accuracy and ability to still do things without having a proficiency bonus in it. [/QUOTE]

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