Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Now that 4e is out, are you into it or sticking with a prior edition?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4289640" data-attributes="member: 19083"><p>Switching to 4th ed very happily, though my players are not so sure, as #1 is a die hard wizard lover (I am too, though, lol), and #2 isn't has no Internet so hasn't been able ot keep up with all the changes.</p><p></p><p>Several reasons:</p><p>1) I'm ill, 3.5 is too much damned stress, stress is very bad for me. 3.5 is overly complex and pestiferous to make NPcs etc, compared ot 1st and 2nd ed where I'd easily make up NPCs at will. I DM to have <em>fun</em>, not put up with all that hassle, gah!</p><p></p><p>2) High level play is VASTLY over complex in 3.5, we spend more time figuring out rules and counter rolls, than having fun. Player #2 was happy to hear "confirm for critical" rolls are gone in 4th ed, waste of game time.</p><p>I think combining/reducing skills is a thing that 3.5 players should consider to improve their games: ie replacing Spot and Search with Perception, etc <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> 4th ed skill list is much better, though maybe add int modifier as NON-combat skills, ie Profession, Craft etc.</p><p></p><p>3) magic items are too vital and too abundant in 3.5 without them, most characters (melee for sure) are absolute gimps, that is not good! non-casters having to carry around a "golf bag" of weapons ot stay effective, while a wizard can use an alternate attack form to bypass DR etc. That ain't right. Items = fun, not mechanic tool box.</p><p>Playing D&D Online let me see how...bad, that is, ugh. Was sheer hassle and a waste of time, effort and inventory.</p><p>4th ed handles such things better by having damage/effect come form powers, mostly, and things like "incorporeal" creatures take 1/2 damage, thus removing wasted time at game table rolling ot miss...miss..miss.... </p><p>Lot 3.5 should take form 4th, to make it more fun, IMHO.</p><p>------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>My biggest dislike of 4th ed is messing with the comsology and backstory, I'm not happy with in some parts.</p><p>"shadowfell" and "feywild" work brilliantly (especially in my homebrew setting), but eliminating the Great Wheel completely, and messing with some things (like driders, and Lawful and Chaoptic as more than mere alignments, but major Powers) is plain wrong. </p><p></p><p>I agree with parts of the reason for problems with the Great Wheel and a need for change, however, removing some of the important parts, like say, Mechanus and thus, modrons, clashes hard with previous established lore: those kind of things were vital to D&D's millieu in toto.</p><p>Example: in 4th ed Inevitables are now "peculiar" contracted planar mercenaries, eh?! Having them as the arbiters of Cosmic Laws was much better.</p><p></p><p>On the whole though, 4th ed is great improvement. 3.5 is great simulation, but the complexity is too much for most DMs I know to enjoy, and please note this: most folk in the world are <em>not </em> "ENworld uber enthusiast gamers" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Not a sleight at all, most folk here are deeply passionate and usually skilled....cream of the crop, so not a good basis to set such things against, really.</p><p>Most folkI talk to do HATED 3.5 DMing, that's not good for D&D at all.</p><p></p><p>Plenty of lazy players out there don't care how much hard work/grief DM's get...plenty of players simply don't have much time to play, etc. </p><p><em>Each hour of D&Ding should be 90% fun, 10% mechanics!! </em> Not the other way around.</p><p></p><p>*hugs his old Fiend Folio* <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silverblade The Ench, post: 4289640, member: 19083"] Switching to 4th ed very happily, though my players are not so sure, as #1 is a die hard wizard lover (I am too, though, lol), and #2 isn't has no Internet so hasn't been able ot keep up with all the changes. Several reasons: 1) I'm ill, 3.5 is too much damned stress, stress is very bad for me. 3.5 is overly complex and pestiferous to make NPcs etc, compared ot 1st and 2nd ed where I'd easily make up NPCs at will. I DM to have [I]fun[/I], not put up with all that hassle, gah! 2) High level play is VASTLY over complex in 3.5, we spend more time figuring out rules and counter rolls, than having fun. Player #2 was happy to hear "confirm for critical" rolls are gone in 4th ed, waste of game time. I think combining/reducing skills is a thing that 3.5 players should consider to improve their games: ie replacing Spot and Search with Perception, etc :) 4th ed skill list is much better, though maybe add int modifier as NON-combat skills, ie Profession, Craft etc. 3) magic items are too vital and too abundant in 3.5 without them, most characters (melee for sure) are absolute gimps, that is not good! non-casters having to carry around a "golf bag" of weapons ot stay effective, while a wizard can use an alternate attack form to bypass DR etc. That ain't right. Items = fun, not mechanic tool box. Playing D&D Online let me see how...bad, that is, ugh. Was sheer hassle and a waste of time, effort and inventory. 4th ed handles such things better by having damage/effect come form powers, mostly, and things like "incorporeal" creatures take 1/2 damage, thus removing wasted time at game table rolling ot miss...miss..miss.... Lot 3.5 should take form 4th, to make it more fun, IMHO. ------------------------------------------------------------ My biggest dislike of 4th ed is messing with the comsology and backstory, I'm not happy with in some parts. "shadowfell" and "feywild" work brilliantly (especially in my homebrew setting), but eliminating the Great Wheel completely, and messing with some things (like driders, and Lawful and Chaoptic as more than mere alignments, but major Powers) is plain wrong. I agree with parts of the reason for problems with the Great Wheel and a need for change, however, removing some of the important parts, like say, Mechanus and thus, modrons, clashes hard with previous established lore: those kind of things were vital to D&D's millieu in toto. Example: in 4th ed Inevitables are now "peculiar" contracted planar mercenaries, eh?! Having them as the arbiters of Cosmic Laws was much better. On the whole though, 4th ed is great improvement. 3.5 is great simulation, but the complexity is too much for most DMs I know to enjoy, and please note this: most folk in the world are [I]not [/I] "ENworld uber enthusiast gamers" ;) Not a sleight at all, most folk here are deeply passionate and usually skilled....cream of the crop, so not a good basis to set such things against, really. Most folkI talk to do HATED 3.5 DMing, that's not good for D&D at all. Plenty of lazy players out there don't care how much hard work/grief DM's get...plenty of players simply don't have much time to play, etc. [I]Each hour of D&Ding should be 90% fun, 10% mechanics!! [/I] Not the other way around. *hugs his old Fiend Folio* :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Now that 4e is out, are you into it or sticking with a prior edition?
Top