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<blockquote data-quote="Rhenny" data-source="post: 7002674" data-attributes="member: 18333">This makes total sense.But, if the DM wants the Ogre to knock over the tree, make the tree old and rotted at the base, or anchored in weak soil.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then, just let the Ogre push it over, or if you still think it is uncertain invent a DC and roll for it.Here's the thing I resent as a DM.&nbsp; If as a DM, I decide that the Ogre can push the tree down, the players shouldn't even question my decision.&nbsp; Why should I have to justify what happens?&nbsp; The players should assume that the tree had unstable roots or it was anchored in weaker soil.&nbsp; Stop putting the burden of proof on the DM.&nbsp; DMs are running games to make it fun for the players.&nbsp; Let them do that.&nbsp;&nbsp; In the ideal world, the DM would telegraph that the tree looked unstable, but sometimes DMs come up with interesting ideas after the initial description of a setting.&nbsp; Also, there are many situations that don't always reveal their secrets - not everything can be seen/known (In real life, I was once walking through a wooded area and when I leaned on a small tree to rest, it did in fact, fall over!!! - it happens).&nbsp; Players, work with your DMs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rhenny, post: 7002674, member: 18333"] This makes total sense. But, if the DM wants the Ogre to knock over the tree, make the tree old and rotted at the base, or anchored in weak soil. Then, just let the Ogre push it over, or if you still think it is uncertain invent a DC and roll for it. Here's the thing I resent as a DM. If as a DM, I decide that the Ogre can push the tree down, the players shouldn't even question my decision. Why should I have to justify what happens? The players should assume that the tree had unstable roots or it was anchored in weaker soil. Stop putting the burden of proof on the DM. DMs are running games to make it fun for the players. Let them do that. In the ideal world, the DM would telegraph that the tree looked unstable, but sometimes DMs come up with interesting ideas after the initial description of a setting. Also, there are many situations that don't always reveal their secrets - not everything can be seen/known (In real life, I was once walking through a wooded area and when I leaned on a small tree to rest, it did in fact, fall over!!! - it happens). Players, work with your DMs. [/QUOTE]

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