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NPC Ability Checks and Stunting or...Ogre Smash
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7003144" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>It's an interesting discussion. I'll say up front that I personally think that this is way much more thought than is needed to come to a decision at the table.</p><p></p><p>But for the sake of discussion...must we assume that ability checks...and all of the rules that go along with them...are meant to be applied the same to monsters as they are to PCs? Is a 19 STR the same in all ways for a PC as it is for the ogre? </p><p></p><p>There's nothing in the rules as written to say there is a difference, I know, but I would think a difference would apply. Most likely I'd base this on size....say that carrying capacity and other facets of STR (i.e. STR checks) are greater for larger creatures. Surely a large ogre can carry more than a human, right? </p><p></p><p>I don't think that applying the rules differently in a case like that would be an abuse of DM fiat. Ultimately, the only reason we see an ogre as having a STR score that is actually within the reach of a PC achieving is to maintain combat numbers...to hit and damage figures, right? But there should be no real reason for the combat numbers to determine all else when it comes to attributes and how they interact with the game world.</p><p></p><p>I mean, does anyone look at the picture of the ogre in the Monster Manual and expect the feats of STR that such a creature would be capable of to match that of a man? I wouldn't expect so. Therefore, I'd frame my narrative accordingly. Personally, I'd have the ogre succeed without even bothering for a check. My reason being that the rules are there to determine when the PCs succeed or fail, not when the ogre does so. </p><p></p><p>Obviously, that may not work for everyone. I think such a ruling might come into question when the players know the ogre's stats. Because that number in the STR listing indicates a parity with the PCs. So players may assume that they could then knock over a tree (which should likely be nigh impossible for them) and so forth. For players who are so mechanically inclined, I would simply apply a houserule when it came to STR checks for creatures of Large size or greater; grant them advantage on such checks, and perhaps reduce the DC for checks by 2 for each size category above Medium. </p><p></p><p>I know that this is not RAW, but I don't think such rulings are in any way outside the DM's role as described in the books.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7003144, member: 6785785"] It's an interesting discussion. I'll say up front that I personally think that this is way much more thought than is needed to come to a decision at the table. But for the sake of discussion...must we assume that ability checks...and all of the rules that go along with them...are meant to be applied the same to monsters as they are to PCs? Is a 19 STR the same in all ways for a PC as it is for the ogre? There's nothing in the rules as written to say there is a difference, I know, but I would think a difference would apply. Most likely I'd base this on size....say that carrying capacity and other facets of STR (i.e. STR checks) are greater for larger creatures. Surely a large ogre can carry more than a human, right? I don't think that applying the rules differently in a case like that would be an abuse of DM fiat. Ultimately, the only reason we see an ogre as having a STR score that is actually within the reach of a PC achieving is to maintain combat numbers...to hit and damage figures, right? But there should be no real reason for the combat numbers to determine all else when it comes to attributes and how they interact with the game world. I mean, does anyone look at the picture of the ogre in the Monster Manual and expect the feats of STR that such a creature would be capable of to match that of a man? I wouldn't expect so. Therefore, I'd frame my narrative accordingly. Personally, I'd have the ogre succeed without even bothering for a check. My reason being that the rules are there to determine when the PCs succeed or fail, not when the ogre does so. Obviously, that may not work for everyone. I think such a ruling might come into question when the players know the ogre's stats. Because that number in the STR listing indicates a parity with the PCs. So players may assume that they could then knock over a tree (which should likely be nigh impossible for them) and so forth. For players who are so mechanically inclined, I would simply apply a houserule when it came to STR checks for creatures of Large size or greater; grant them advantage on such checks, and perhaps reduce the DC for checks by 2 for each size category above Medium. I know that this is not RAW, but I don't think such rulings are in any way outside the DM's role as described in the books. [/QUOTE]
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