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<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 7003286" data-attributes="member: 23935">As far as I care, nothing is wrong with your example.&nbsp; You've assigned a DC that, should the Fighter get enlarged, he too can try to hit.&nbsp; Pushing over a mid-size tree for you is DC 25 (which means a levelled athletic Fighter-type really doesn't have too much trouble doing that task and a higher level Bard can guarantee it).&nbsp; In other DM's minds, pushing over a tree pretty much requires serious machinery or a least something sized like an elephant taking 10 minutes or more.&nbsp; In their universes, pushing over a tree as part of a round action is probably more like a DC &lt;you-can't-roll-this-high&gt;. In that type of universe, the ogre gets to do it not because the ogre can roll that high, but because the DM thinks it is a cool move and cool moves should be used and rewarded.&nbsp; So the game degenerates to the players trying to figure out what dramatic//cool/neat-o move the DM can be talked into accepting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 7003286, member: 23935"] As far as I care, nothing is wrong with your example. You've assigned a DC that, should the Fighter get enlarged, he too can try to hit. Pushing over a mid-size tree for you is DC 25 (which means a levelled athletic Fighter-type really doesn't have too much trouble doing that task and a higher level Bard can guarantee it). In other DM's minds, pushing over a tree pretty much requires serious machinery or a least something sized like an elephant taking 10 minutes or more. In their universes, pushing over a tree as part of a round action is probably more like a DC <you-can't-roll-this-high>. In that type of universe, the ogre gets to do it not because the ogre can roll that high, but because the DM thinks it is a cool move and cool moves should be used and rewarded. So the game degenerates to the players trying to figure out what dramatic//cool/neat-o move the DM can be talked into accepting. [/QUOTE]

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