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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7003409" data-attributes="member: 6775031">I take umbrage at your accusations of meta-gaming. Meta-gaming means (colloquially) that the player is using information that the character doesn't have. But everything about demonstrable Strength, and training, and what those translate to within the game world are things that the character can see. My fighter can see how strong that ogre is, based on how hard it swings a club; and they can see if the ogre is trained, based on its technique.Meta-gaming would be making decisions based on genre convention or outside sources that don't actually apply within the game world. If a fighter imagined that an ogre could knock down a tree, because the player knows what kind of books the DM has read, then that would be meta-gaming.If this ogre is trained in knocking down trees, and knows how to apply leverage, then that should be apparent by watching. There's nothing controversial about an ogre that's actually proficient in Athletics. (At least, not within this thread; some people get upset if you so much as change the weapon a monster uses.)Not even fighter have expertise in Athletics, though. Not even barbarians have expertise in Athletics. Wizards don't have expertise in Arcana. It's not a matter of simple skill, or any amount of intelligence. You have to be a professional skill-monkey in order to get double proficiency in anything. If the DM grants expertise to the dumbest humanoid in the book, then that's shenanigans, and you should expect players to call you out on it.Reality doesn't operate under Bounded Accuracy. In real life, a strong person can break a board with greater than 99% certainty that I could never break. Within the game world, there is no task that a strong person can achieve reliably that a weak person cannot achieve occasionally; the die is too unpredictable, and the modifiers are too small.The game world is not our real world. If you make any decisions based on how things work in the real world, then that is meta-gaming.</blockquote>

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