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<blockquote data-quote="CrashFiend82" data-source="post: 7003515" data-attributes="member: 6778742"><p>Isn't the ogre knocking down the tree by definition showing its training or ability. Why would he have to first commit some other act to demonstrate his ability. It was mentioned that most classes don't grant expertise in athletics but again the rules for building, advancing, tweaking monsters don't follow character creation rules. Let's say they do though and for these purposes you gave a level of barbarian and he is raging, so he has advantage and increased strength. How would a character have any in world knowledge that this isn't normal for an ogre? Unless he had fought a handful of ogres previously, and even then wouldn't the characters first instinct be simply, after seeing the rest of strength, assume that this ogre is just stronger than average? Isn't the listed stats in monster manual for each creature an average of the kind? Not all humans have the same strengbt, why would ogres?</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="CrashFiend82, post: 7003515, member: 6778742"] Isn't the ogre knocking down the tree by definition showing its training or ability. Why would he have to first commit some other act to demonstrate his ability. It was mentioned that most classes don't grant expertise in athletics but again the rules for building, advancing, tweaking monsters don't follow character creation rules. Let's say they do though and for these purposes you gave a level of barbarian and he is raging, so he has advantage and increased strength. How would a character have any in world knowledge that this isn't normal for an ogre? Unless he had fought a handful of ogres previously, and even then wouldn't the characters first instinct be simply, after seeing the rest of strength, assume that this ogre is just stronger than average? Isn't the listed stats in monster manual for each creature an average of the kind? Not all humans have the same strengbt, why would ogres? [/QUOTE]

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