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NPC Ability Checks and Stunting or...Ogre Smash
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7004422" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>I think your first paragraph is the most likely explanation (complemented by IMO lack of foresight regarding clarity during the drafting process).</p><p></p><p>On the second paragraph, I do think all the 5e (martial) monsters could use more dynamic moves as part of their orthodox repertoire. However, that could be alleviated with more robust stunting procedures and, as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] conveyed, the improved statblock solution skirts that issue (makes it a matter of prep rather than improv).</p><p></p><p>What do you think about the issue that has been recently presented (which was another impetus for this thread)? Examining the uncertainty of process-based action declarations from Toril-based physics (which are roughly earth-based given the source material) should yield that neither a 5e common man, 5e Ogre, 5e Hill Giant, or 5e Strength-archetype Hero (even an Epic tier one) can shove over a very average Sawtimber tree. But what if the below adjudication takes place:</p><p></p><p>1) Arbitrarily (and inevitably incoherently) mash (mythic or AD&D tradition) genre and earth-science (which is roughly that of Toril) causal logic together (which the rules text connotes the latter)...</p><p></p><p>2) then "say yes" to the Ogre (to ourselves, in effect) knocking over the tree (again, not even requiring consultation of the resolution mechanics)...</p><p></p><p>3) then either "say no" to the Strongman archetype (who can mechanically exceed the Str of the 5e Ogre, while having endgame Proficiency in Athletics...despite being short a few feet of leverage) or require a rather punitive consultation of the resolution mechanics (against...say...DC 25 or 30 - the proper D.C. for the common man).</p><p></p><p>(2) has been promoted. If 3 then occurs (and this dovetails with the D.C. 30...35? thread)...well, it seems like we have a problem Houston (or certainly IMO orthodox players like [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION] would have a problem).</p><p></p><p>Again, it seems to me that a lot of 5e GMs want to run the system like it's Dungeon World while eschewing crucial components of DW's focused Agenda and Principles. Not to mention that 5e's chasis is starkly different (complex resolution mechanics which intersect with a fair amount of units, precision, and derivatives vs basic, first order resolution mechanics for focused free form role play).</p><p></p><p>Thiughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7004422, member: 6696971"] I think your first paragraph is the most likely explanation (complemented by IMO lack of foresight regarding clarity during the drafting process). On the second paragraph, I do think all the 5e (martial) monsters could use more dynamic moves as part of their orthodox repertoire. However, that could be alleviated with more robust stunting procedures and, as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] conveyed, the improved statblock solution skirts that issue (makes it a matter of prep rather than improv). What do you think about the issue that has been recently presented (which was another impetus for this thread)? Examining the uncertainty of process-based action declarations from Toril-based physics (which are roughly earth-based given the source material) should yield that neither a 5e common man, 5e Ogre, 5e Hill Giant, or 5e Strength-archetype Hero (even an Epic tier one) can shove over a very average Sawtimber tree. But what if the below adjudication takes place: 1) Arbitrarily (and inevitably incoherently) mash (mythic or AD&D tradition) genre and earth-science (which is roughly that of Toril) causal logic together (which the rules text connotes the latter)... 2) then "say yes" to the Ogre (to ourselves, in effect) knocking over the tree (again, not even requiring consultation of the resolution mechanics)... 3) then either "say no" to the Strongman archetype (who can mechanically exceed the Str of the 5e Ogre, while having endgame Proficiency in Athletics...despite being short a few feet of leverage) or require a rather punitive consultation of the resolution mechanics (against...say...DC 25 or 30 - the proper D.C. for the common man). (2) has been promoted. If 3 then occurs (and this dovetails with the D.C. 30...35? thread)...well, it seems like we have a problem Houston (or certainly IMO orthodox players like [MENTION=23935]Nagol[/MENTION] would have a problem). Again, it seems to me that a lot of 5e GMs want to run the system like it's Dungeon World while eschewing crucial components of DW's focused Agenda and Principles. Not to mention that 5e's chasis is starkly different (complex resolution mechanics which intersect with a fair amount of units, precision, and derivatives vs basic, first order resolution mechanics for focused free form role play). Thiughts? [/QUOTE]
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