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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5509266" data-attributes="member: 4937">The official discussion of CR with respect to leveled humanoids is all wrong.Typically, CR = level if and only if the class is supported in the same way that it would be in a PC party, if the character has an elite stat array, if the character also is optimized for combat, and if the character also has gear approriate for its level.  Any one of those things if missing typically means the CR is less than would be indicated by the rules.I have a 6th level PC classed individual I just stated up that probably has a CR of 2.  It's a support class, the character isn't optimized for combat, the character doesn't have an elite stat array, and doesn't have gear appropriate to its level.  In no fashion is she even remotely CR 6, nor will I award XP for the class as if she were in the event of combat.Generally speaking its much easier to miss making a PC classed humanoid have CR = level that it is to hit that target.  Single individuals effectively lose a CR just by being alone since most PC classes have huge vunerabilities that are normally filled by working together in a team.  Many PC classes/builds are balanced on the assumption that they are working to support other classes in combat and taking lead roles out of combat.  Spellcasters generally meet CR if and only if it can be assumed that the spellcaster has had the oppurtunity to stack on the maximum number of buffs prior to combat.  A spellcaster which is ambushed without a front line to defend himself is likely to be rolled in short order as the PC's simply converge and beat down.  A fighter oppurating alone is simply going to lose out on the action economy, or is going to be met with tactics he's not optimized to counter (like melee build facing PC's that refuse to close and instead use ranged weapons) and much like the spellcaster is only going to live up to CR if he's had time to quaff potions of heroism and bull's strength just prior to entering combat.  In most published works I've read, to meet the CR = level target they encourage the DM to cheat by having like 20 buffs stacked up exactly when the PC's break down the door.  In practice, as a DM you'll have a very very hard time predicting when the PC's will 'break down the door' in a reliable fashion.  If you quaff potions and the like after an alarm is sounded, the PC's will at least 50% of the time break off the attack to rest or explore or return home.  If you have NPC's cast a short duration buff in responce to hearing the PC's fiddling with the door to the NPC's lair, at least 50% of the time the PC's will find a reason to wait for 3 or 4 minutes before kicking the door down.  And if the NPC is proactive and begins hunting down the PC's, he will generally lose the advantage of favorable terrain.And that's PC classed individuals I'm discussing.Generally speaking the real CR of an NPC classed invidual like 'Warrior' is about 1/2 its level.  So a 20th level warrior is probably about CR 10 at most - assuming reasonably good gear, elite stat array and optimal selection of feats.   A 4th level Warrior is probably about CR2 or CR3 in the case of very good gear and stats.For a commoner, the CR is probably about 1/4 its level.  A fourth level commoner, say a tough old farmer, is about CR 1 at best.</blockquote>

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