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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9542209" data-attributes="member: 6779310">LIghtweight version? Luke gets real angry at that. As in clear rage posting  in 2009-'10 when the comparison was made. Luke's not entirely wrong. Burning Wheel Revised (BWR) begat Mouse Guard, Mouse Guard begat Torchbearer. So, no, technically, Mouse Guard isn't Torchbearer light. Nor is TB Burning Wheel Light. It's Mouse Guard's skeleton with more detailed character gen, encumbrance and supplies rules...   and a magic system. BWR and Burning Empires are mostly the same system; BWR is a classic playloop, but BE uses a scene budget instead. Knowing BWR/BWG duel of Wits will make the use of BE Duel of Wits dead simple to learn - they're the same. But BE's combat rules for physical are not a match to either of BWR/BWG's detailed combat systems (Fight!, Range & Cover). Plus, BE revises the metaplot mechanic from a BWR supplement (Jihad)...MG instead uses a single conflict mechanic, simplified from (essentially) Duel of Wits, but applies it to all extended actions. TB uses that same conflict mechanic. Where they differ is in character generation, special abilities, and the play loop access when spending checks.The play loops for all 4 core games differ... a lot. The underpinning philosophy does not. Nor does the rating of skills (tho' BWR/BWG shade tweaks the values when you shade shift them).</blockquote>