Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9548741" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The ultimate point of a RPG's mechanics is to introduce surprises - stuff that people aren't just going to agree is <em>what happens next</em>. I mean, if the mechanics didn't do this then we could just proceed by way of agreement and free-ranging negotiation.</p><p></p><p><em>What elements of the fiction</em> are within the scope of such surprises is a matter of rules design. Just to give one example, in 3E, 4e and 5e D&D a PC is basically always able to move wherever they want, subject to rules about unoccupied squares and the like. This is not a site, in the fiction, of <em>surprise</em>. Rather, these rules facilitate other stuff - like the making of attack rolls, the forcing of saving throws, etc - which are the site of surprise.</p><p></p><p>But in Burning Wheel - just to pick an example - movement in the context of the extended melee conflict rules (Fight!) <em>does</em> require an opposed check against one's foe. There is a possibility of surprise in a site of the fiction that does not yield such possibilities in the last 25 year's worth of D&D.</p><p></p><p>Or consider spellcasting: again, in D&D a player's declaration that their PC casts a spell is typically always successful - spells are not miscast and don't fizzle, etc, except in very particular circumstances. But other RPGs are quite different - Rolemaster is one; Torchbearer 2e is another.</p><p></p><p>And the same variety of possibilities and approaches obtains in the context of social elements of the fiction. In your approach, the PC is only affected, socially, if the player chooses to play their PC that way. So in the context of the process of play, it is all about the player making decisions for their PC, and others going along because they respect the players' "ownership" of their PC.</p><p></p><p>But in a game with social mechanics, <em>how a PC responds socially</em> can be a matter of surprise, just as (say) whether or not an enemy hoplite runs the PC through with their spear.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9548741, member: 42582"] The ultimate point of a RPG's mechanics is to introduce surprises - stuff that people aren't just going to agree is [I]what happens next[/I]. I mean, if the mechanics didn't do this then we could just proceed by way of agreement and free-ranging negotiation. [I]What elements of the fiction[/I] are within the scope of such surprises is a matter of rules design. Just to give one example, in 3E, 4e and 5e D&D a PC is basically always able to move wherever they want, subject to rules about unoccupied squares and the like. This is not a site, in the fiction, of [I]surprise[/I]. Rather, these rules facilitate other stuff - like the making of attack rolls, the forcing of saving throws, etc - which are the site of surprise. But in Burning Wheel - just to pick an example - movement in the context of the extended melee conflict rules (Fight!) [I]does[/I] require an opposed check against one's foe. There is a possibility of surprise in a site of the fiction that does not yield such possibilities in the last 25 year's worth of D&D. Or consider spellcasting: again, in D&D a player's declaration that their PC casts a spell is typically always successful - spells are not miscast and don't fizzle, etc, except in very particular circumstances. But other RPGs are quite different - Rolemaster is one; Torchbearer 2e is another. And the same variety of possibilities and approaches obtains in the context of social elements of the fiction. In your approach, the PC is only affected, socially, if the player chooses to play their PC that way. So in the context of the process of play, it is all about the player making decisions for their PC, and others going along because they respect the players' "ownership" of their PC. But in a game with social mechanics, [I]how a PC responds socially[/I] can be a matter of surprise, just as (say) whether or not an enemy hoplite runs the PC through with their spear. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency
Top