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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 9548752" data-attributes="member: 7031982">Well, "good" is a subjective term.That aside, as I said just upthread, I agree that when a player agrees to abide by the result of a roll, even though their subsequent actions might be constrained, the fact that they agreed to the stakes means its not loss of agency. I disagree with that assertion.  From a realism standpoint, people completely misinterpret their sensory perceptions all the time.  But, more importantly, from a game standpoint if the DM narrates that a door is shut, and I want to claim my character believes there is no door there....so what?  When I try to go through the door and fail, maybe I will decide I believe in the door after all, but maybe I will come up with a new "belief" to explain it.  It might completely and utterly defy the reality the DM describes.  But it's valid.  (And this example is silly and I would soon get tired of playing with somebody who does that more than once.)You mentioned an example like this before.  I don't have a problem with the game state contradicting the player's internal mental state.  E.g., I may want my character to be a human fighter, but magic turns him into a centaur wizard, or whatever your example was.But if I say, "My character still believes he is a human fighter, and this is all a dream that he refuses to accept," again that's valid.I freely acknowledge (and have repeatedly said) that I struggle to use "knowledge checks" in a way that I find satisfactory.  But that's because it's often hard to think of good consequences for failure, not because it's dictating an internal mental state.  I might say, "Yes, you are an adventurer in a dangerous world so you would know that fire will keep trolls from regenerating."  And you might say, "Um, yeah, but my character has never believed that.  He's going to use frost."  Totally fine.  Your character, your internal mental state.</blockquote>

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