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Message: <blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 9550179" data-attributes="member: 90374">I think there is an error in comparing a shopkeeper to a dragon here, but think I see where you are going with it. I dont think it unnatural or in need of magic or other normal world breaking explanation for a person to be good at deception, diplomacy, and/or intimidation. This is not supernatural stuff to me, and I see skills as a natural reflection of a person's ability.  I will note, using a particularly socially adept NPC is an exception even in my games. Not every shopkeep and hobo is going to be trying to get one over on the PCs. So, we do have some common ground on thinking that social skill use on PCs ought to be an exception, I just dont require a supernatural condition for it.Hmm, I see more of the mundane and magic dividing line here. Not saying its wrong, I struggled with the idea of mundane healing myself. For the bard example, I wouldn't go with magic, but also a mundane explanation. Barbarian: "I hate that bard, and especially how he goads me during battle its irritating..."Bard: "Yeah but that irritation builds your emotional fortitude into energy to dodge arrows and blades!"  What I reconciled with my issue with non-magical healing, was more my desire for resource attrition and niche protection. It was easy for me to grok it for the former, less so for the latter. I've certainly softened on the position of niche protection.Anyways... I think we are seeing a concept that exceptional results come from exceptional abilities and are not possible from the mundane. Not surprising to hear, this is actually a common viewpoint amongst RPG players, and those of D&D in particular. I do think mundane skills have limits that magic doesnt, but I still think skills ought to be functional in the game for PCs and NPCs as a natural ability for them.  That sounds like an awesome set piece battle with a smart opponent. It sounds much less awesome if its a common tactic that mages use to shutoff warlords.This might be an instance I agree with you. I could see a bard or enemy warlord who has an archetype of shutting down their opponents abilities as a tactic, but again it wouldn't be common at all in my games. Though, I might allow it in certain circumstances to spice things up.Now this seems especially antagonistic, but a fair question. I dont typically have PVP groups, but if I did, I might allow something like this because its coming from the player against the player and not me as GM as the originator. It would be a table wide discussion, however, on how to adjudicate soemthing like this, if to allow it at all.This set up is interesting because its mundane against mundane and not mundane vs magic. The stakes are higher because the mundane for the warlord isnt a skill, its their actual shtick. Which leads me to think its more in line with magic and should take exceptional effort to negate. So, allowable in certain instances, but not the norm.</blockquote>

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