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NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9556422" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>I've mentioned many times before that so often in these discussions, <em>(i) what is immersive</em> gets conflated with <em>(ii) what achieves my particular desired brand of Power Fantasy. </em></p><p></p><p>That conflation or premise-smuggling (conscious or not) is frustrating. (i) and (ii) are not the same. They may not even be related or might actually be inversely so. And that is certainly what you're pointing at above (even if indirectly!).</p><p></p><p>I'll also add that play can achieve extremely compelling heroic fantasy while characters are simultaneously beholden to human frailty like becoming smitten or falling prey momentarily to their "worse nature" (both of which require some real lack of volition by the party involved...authorship-by-fiat or always being able to opt out of becoming smitten or falling prey to your worse nature completely defangs the weightiness and experience of the concept at a fundamental level). I'll submit that might even make the experience of the moment, and the reflection upon that moment, feel more heroic!</p><p></p><p>Net, Power Fantasy occupies a different space from what usually typifies habitation/immersion and we really need to strive to be direct about this and stop the conflation. A statement like "I want to be immersed in a Power Fantasy where I win and/or always direct the inner workings of my humanity and/or author the arc of my Big Damn Hero" is a thing that can be desired. But dressing that up as some kind of default of habitation/immersion while simultaneously lamenting features of play/system that might actually entail the unfortunate machinery of the inner workings of humanity (to lose control, to possibly strive or suffer without remuneration, to sacrifice without reciprocation)? Not great.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 9556422, member: 6696971"] I've mentioned many times before that so often in these discussions, [I](i) what is immersive[/I] gets conflated with [I](ii) what achieves my particular desired brand of Power Fantasy. [/I] That conflation or premise-smuggling (conscious or not) is frustrating. (i) and (ii) are not the same. They may not even be related or might actually be inversely so. And that is certainly what you're pointing at above (even if indirectly!). I'll also add that play can achieve extremely compelling heroic fantasy while characters are simultaneously beholden to human frailty like becoming smitten or falling prey momentarily to their "worse nature" (both of which require some real lack of volition by the party involved...authorship-by-fiat or always being able to opt out of becoming smitten or falling prey to your worse nature completely defangs the weightiness and experience of the concept at a fundamental level). I'll submit that might even make the experience of the moment, and the reflection upon that moment, feel more heroic! Net, Power Fantasy occupies a different space from what usually typifies habitation/immersion and we really need to strive to be direct about this and stop the conflation. A statement like "I want to be immersed in a Power Fantasy where I win and/or always direct the inner workings of my humanity and/or author the arc of my Big Damn Hero" is a thing that can be desired. But dressing that up as some kind of default of habitation/immersion while simultaneously lamenting features of play/system that might actually entail the unfortunate machinery of the inner workings of humanity (to lose control, to possibly strive or suffer without remuneration, to sacrifice without reciprocation)? Not great. [/QUOTE]
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