Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9557428" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I've not said, nor implied, that inhabitation of character is impossible. I've repeatedly stated, including in this thread, that as a player it is my goal.</p><p></p><p>If I am going to inhabit my character <em>being moved in some non-chosen way</em> then I am not looking to have to choose that - which would be self-defeating!</p><p></p><p>I want the system itself to generate, concurrently in me as it does in my character, the response in question. Some of this comes from what the system tells me, where I can anticipate or follow along with that (much as how, eg, [USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] describes being immersed in D&D combat, I'm guessing because similarly he can anticipate and follow along with what the mechanics are dictating). What the system tells me is, in turn, shaped by what I know about how the system picks up on, and develops, the established fiction.</p><p></p><p>An example from Burning Wheel play:</p><p>I built my character to be a would-be murderous rogue, but I also know the rules for Steel. The drawing of Heart-seeker and willingness to use it had already foregrounded a type of awful climax - Aedhros running the innkeeper through. I (the player) knew it was awful, and that it would be a terrible thing for Aedhros to do. The system dictates that Aedhros, too, knows it is awful - the system includes Traits that inure the character who has them to the awfulness of murder, but Aedhros does not have any such Trait.</p><p></p><p>And then, when - at the call of the GM - I roll for Steel, the awfulness is brought home in mechanical terms. I look at the dice and know that I (as Aedhros) will hesitate, just as Aedhros - about to do the awful deed - hesitates for 4 heartbeats.</p><p></p><p>This is one example of inhabitation.</p><p></p><p>Here's another:</p><p>Thurgon has Faith, but he knows that faith can falter, and is not always pure and strong enough for the divinity to hear the faithful's call. The system reflects this, via the system for tests on Faith.</p><p></p><p>Thurgon is invested - and so am I, the player, as I put Thurgon's "will to live" Persona point into the dice pool. Thurgon wonders, <em>will the Lord of Battle hear my prayer?</em> And I roll the dice, wondering <em>will Thurgon's prayer be answered? Will I get what I want for my PC?</em></p><p></p><p>My sense of relief and elation when the 7 successes come up mirrors Thurgon's relief and elation that his prayer has indeed been heard and answered, so that his mother is now relieved of her burdens and is ready to join with him in liberating Auxol, their ancestral estate.</p><p></p><p>I think both these examples are also relevant to posts I've made upthread, about the significance of the player establishing stakes. There is no arbitrary NPC ready to stab Aedhros or Thurgon, no random necromancer trying to persuade them to take up a fetch-quest for the Red Ruby of Doom - the situations they are confronting speak directly to thematic and dramatic concerns that are elements of the characters themselves. And this is not some sort of coincidence - this is the GM following the principles set out pretty straightforwardly in the BW rulebook. Here's a post that sets out the core of those principles, from a thread a couple of months ago that you participated in:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9557428, member: 42582"] I've not said, nor implied, that inhabitation of character is impossible. I've repeatedly stated, including in this thread, that as a player it is my goal. If I am going to inhabit my character [I]being moved in some non-chosen way[/I] then I am not looking to have to choose that - which would be self-defeating! I want the system itself to generate, concurrently in me as it does in my character, the response in question. Some of this comes from what the system tells me, where I can anticipate or follow along with that (much as how, eg, [USER=205]@TwoSix[/USER] describes being immersed in D&D combat, I'm guessing because similarly he can anticipate and follow along with what the mechanics are dictating). What the system tells me is, in turn, shaped by what I know about how the system picks up on, and develops, the established fiction. An example from Burning Wheel play: I built my character to be a would-be murderous rogue, but I also know the rules for Steel. The drawing of Heart-seeker and willingness to use it had already foregrounded a type of awful climax - Aedhros running the innkeeper through. I (the player) knew it was awful, and that it would be a terrible thing for Aedhros to do. The system dictates that Aedhros, too, knows it is awful - the system includes Traits that inure the character who has them to the awfulness of murder, but Aedhros does not have any such Trait. And then, when - at the call of the GM - I roll for Steel, the awfulness is brought home in mechanical terms. I look at the dice and know that I (as Aedhros) will hesitate, just as Aedhros - about to do the awful deed - hesitates for 4 heartbeats. This is one example of inhabitation. Here's another: Thurgon has Faith, but he knows that faith can falter, and is not always pure and strong enough for the divinity to hear the faithful's call. The system reflects this, via the system for tests on Faith. Thurgon is invested - and so am I, the player, as I put Thurgon's "will to live" Persona point into the dice pool. Thurgon wonders, [I]will the Lord of Battle hear my prayer?[/I] And I roll the dice, wondering [I]will Thurgon's prayer be answered? Will I get what I want for my PC?[/I] My sense of relief and elation when the 7 successes come up mirrors Thurgon's relief and elation that his prayer has indeed been heard and answered, so that his mother is now relieved of her burdens and is ready to join with him in liberating Auxol, their ancestral estate. I think both these examples are also relevant to posts I've made upthread, about the significance of the player establishing stakes. There is no arbitrary NPC ready to stab Aedhros or Thurgon, no random necromancer trying to persuade them to take up a fetch-quest for the Red Ruby of Doom - the situations they are confronting speak directly to thematic and dramatic concerns that are elements of the characters themselves. And this is not some sort of coincidence - this is the GM following the principles set out pretty straightforwardly in the BW rulebook. Here's a post that sets out the core of those principles, from a thread a couple of months ago that you participated in: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency
Top