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Message: <blockquote data-quote="deleuzian_kernel" data-source="post: 9566476" data-attributes="member: 7036985">I'm not sure if [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] has further elaborated on this specific anecdote earlier on this thread, but in his referenced account:nothing tells us whether the dice rolls (...or coin flips; research tells me PV uses coin flips) were used as 1) a substitute for roleplaying, 2) at the climax of roleplayed discussion to determine outcomes and provide resolution, or 3) came in to frame how the actual role-played discussion comes about.Narrativist RPG design is so varied that any of the three can generate productive gameplay.---Let's say that I'm playing Sir Justin and you, the reader, is GMing this game, and thus tasked to play the squire. We are both sitting down to discuss the situation, man-to-man over some ales. Let's also say that, just for the purposes of this example, as Sir Justin I will not easily back out of my position to compete for Violette's attention, and you as the squire will not easily back out of your position to compete for Violette's attention.How do we actually resolve this? How do we determine what happens next?See, you say:I'm just really having a hard time imagining how on earth are we going to come to an agreement on what happens next through PURE discussion. Like, I'm gonna make my points, and you are going to make your points, and I will not easily back out and you won't easily back out. Don't you see a problem here? We need resolution mechanics! We need a way to determine who gets their way.Now, historically, one solution that has given to this problem is: Either a week in advance during prep or right at that moment, the GM privately writes down the squires intellectualized value set. Just like he writes down the answer to the secret lock combination on the treasure set, or the few ways to deactivate the water trap. He "nails" down the squire's personality.The resolution mechanic is: if, during the conversation, Sir James correctly guesses what makes the squire's personality tick, he gets the girl. The "discussion" is not really a discussion. It's puzzle solving with or without dice rolls and with or without hints masquerading as "role-play".Another solution is, you know, The GM "feels" it out. At some point in the discussion the GM determines he is done listening to Sir James arguments and provides a viable "exit". Did the role-play in our discussion provide resolution to our dilemma, or did we just say words until the GM rendered their judgement over their, current, preferred outcome? Do they even take the effort to retroactively justify it on the "role-play" we just did?If my conception of Sir James is inviolate, if I say: "Sir James will never give up on his chase for Violette, specially not for a meager squire" WHAT amount of role-play will ever make me as a player decide to give this discussion. What can you possibly say as the squire that would make me "Oh, you know what...maybe he does have a point and I will totally back out."Should I also secretly write down my value set and we play who solves the puzzle first?---We are both sitting down to discuss the situation, man-to-man over some ales. Now, my conception of Sir James isn't as inviolate, but I'm still gonna go hard on this, perhaps even harder.1. Role-play helps inform the rollWe role-play. I'm gonna make my points, and you are going to make your points, and I will not easily back out and you won't easily back out, but at some point we detect uncertainty. One says something that makes the other go: "Uhh, you know what...that argument, if presented with the right emphasis...and you know even if your character further brought at this or that...could actually make my character back out for now."Should we roll to see if your character actually manage to pick up on that subtle cue or if it leaves him vulnerable to a fatal misstep?2. The roll frames the role-playWe roll and turns out the squire gets Sir James to back out."What!? That's so unexpected for my character. How on earth did this happen?" "Uhh, yeah that's kind of funny. Hmmm, maybe when they were on their third ale he asked him about that time when..." "Oh no...I see where this is going."In this case role-play can not only cement the outcome, but the narration of the outcome itself can help inform future rolls or open up further conflicts.3. The roll completely substitutes the role-playWe roll and it turns out we tied."We see you guys walk into the inn and sit down at the table to talk it out, but, over the course of the next week we both see you redouble your efforts to win Violette's heart. It seems like whatever you guys talked about further fueled the competition between you. Oh, and Violette is loving all of it."All three perfectly functional and productive.4. Turns out through role-play we actually discover our fault lines and one of us is actually willing to back out Also cool! I'm just glad we have three other options for if that wasn't the case.---[USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] Sorry for totally hijacking and elaborating over your play example. I just saw it as a good place for me to enter the thread with something to share.</blockquote>

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