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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6234299" data-attributes="member: 4937">Both feats and classes are part of the same system.&nbsp; By this logic, isn't 'Weapon Focus (longsword)' a rule that lets you over ride the first set of rules when they yield 'inappropriate results'?&nbsp;&nbsp; What do you imagine the alternative actually is?&nbsp;&nbsp; I've used skill based systems in the past; you won't get easier and quicker results going down that route, and you still have the same overrides (specializations and finer grained skills).&nbsp; I mean, if the PC's out of the blue say, &quot;I want to rob this bank.&quot;, I don't want to decide whether or not they can do that.&nbsp; If I'm picking numbers based on outcome, I'm basically deciding the outcome of the scene.So, no, I'm not strictly outcome based in my DMing.&nbsp; Outcome sometimes is considered when I use DM force to direct the story, &quot;You are attacked by a band of orcs.&quot;, requires some consideration of whether there is an interesting outcome to that, but outcome is rarely my primary consideration compared to verisimilitude.&nbsp;&nbsp; If out of the blue the PC's decide to rob a bank, the defences of the bank will be set by common expectations about the demographics of the setting and not by the fact that the PC's abilities or my desired outcome.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't know what we want by way of output.&nbsp;&nbsp; The PC's know what output they want, but my hands are too powerful to be allowed to steer the wheel like that because they would be irresistible.&nbsp; The only person getting their wishes would be me.I think I've answered the 'why bother' question above, but you misunderstand.&nbsp; I don't find the need to do things like ''Fairy God Mother's Gift&quot; because I'm not having results I don't want.&nbsp;&nbsp; I was making a suggestion to you since you are the one unhappy with the results of how the rules are actually more flexible than you are suggesting.&nbsp; Maybe for you, but that's not what I want.&nbsp; What I want is a system that gives me a value when I say, &quot;I want to know the bonus is in this situation of an average urban craftsman.&quot; or, &quot;I want to know what the abilities would be of an elite Templar serving as a doson in the basilica of the goddess of love and beauty.&quot; or in the case of the example above, &quot;What abilities does a bank guard normally have?&quot; and be able to derive that from first principles of the setting demographics.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6234299, member: 4937"] Both feats and classes are part of the same system. By this logic, isn't 'Weapon Focus (longsword)' a rule that lets you over ride the first set of rules when they yield 'inappropriate results'? What do you imagine the alternative actually is? I've used skill based systems in the past; you won't get easier and quicker results going down that route, and you still have the same overrides (specializations and finer grained skills). I mean, if the PC's out of the blue say, "I want to rob this bank.", I don't want to decide whether or not they can do that. If I'm picking numbers based on outcome, I'm basically deciding the outcome of the scene. So, no, I'm not strictly outcome based in my DMing. Outcome sometimes is considered when I use DM force to direct the story, "You are attacked by a band of orcs.", requires some consideration of whether there is an interesting outcome to that, but outcome is rarely my primary consideration compared to verisimilitude. If out of the blue the PC's decide to rob a bank, the defences of the bank will be set by common expectations about the demographics of the setting and not by the fact that the PC's abilities or my desired outcome. I don't know what we want by way of output. The PC's know what output they want, but my hands are too powerful to be allowed to steer the wheel like that because they would be irresistible. The only person getting their wishes would be me. I think I've answered the 'why bother' question above, but you misunderstand. I don't find the need to do things like ''Fairy God Mother's Gift" because I'm not having results I don't want. I was making a suggestion to you since you are the one unhappy with the results of how the rules are actually more flexible than you are suggesting. Maybe for you, but that's not what I want. What I want is a system that gives me a value when I say, "I want to know the bonus is in this situation of an average urban craftsman." or, "I want to know what the abilities would be of an elite Templar serving as a doson in the basilica of the goddess of love and beauty." or in the case of the example above, "What abilities does a bank guard normally have?" and be able to derive that from first principles of the setting demographics. [/QUOTE]

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