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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
NPCs, and the poverty of the core books
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<blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9744732" data-attributes="member: 6879661"><p>It seems like what some folks want is a set of tables or formulae to calculate what the CR of creature should be based on its abilities - or able to reverse engineer a creature from a chosen CR. The problem is that any such calculation requires the designers to decide AC16 = 1 point = Con 18 = one 2nd level spell = 4d6 lighting damage breath weapon in a 30’ cone. The amount of effort needed to do this is off the charts, and even if you did do it every ability, and then adequately took into account the multiple combinations then party mix would change the variables again because a party of X doesn’t play the same as a party of Y.</p><p></p><p>3e/Pathfinder 1e arguably needed a CR calculator with specific ranges and stats because it lacked bounded accuracy. Getting this wrong could easily kill your players or leave them whiffling impotently against ACs or saves beyond their ability. You know what… it still didn’t work very well because of the aforementioned party variables.</p><p></p><p>That isn’t the case in 5e. If you boost an NPCs AC up or down by 2 it likely isn’t going to make a dramatic difference. Similarly if you add an extra spell per day. Or even a spell of one level higher than they could previously cast. 5e is a forgiving game. The DM should feel confident to mess about with things without needing to follow formulae.</p><p></p><p>Poverty? There are more NPC stat blocks in 2024 MM than in any previous Monster Manual. 46 in 2024 compared to 22 in 2014. Dozens and dozens of examples there of NPCs to show you how to do it. Of more detail and varied levels than ever before too. I love how you can see higher level versions of the same type of NPC.</p><p></p><p>The best advice on creating new creatures for new players… <em>Take an appropriate stat block and adjust it. </em>Folks have been creating monsters for games for about 50 years now without a set of formulae. Do we really need to have them published in the core book now?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheSword, post: 9744732, member: 6879661"] It seems like what some folks want is a set of tables or formulae to calculate what the CR of creature should be based on its abilities - or able to reverse engineer a creature from a chosen CR. The problem is that any such calculation requires the designers to decide AC16 = 1 point = Con 18 = one 2nd level spell = 4d6 lighting damage breath weapon in a 30’ cone. The amount of effort needed to do this is off the charts, and even if you did do it every ability, and then adequately took into account the multiple combinations then party mix would change the variables again because a party of X doesn’t play the same as a party of Y. 3e/Pathfinder 1e arguably needed a CR calculator with specific ranges and stats because it lacked bounded accuracy. Getting this wrong could easily kill your players or leave them whiffling impotently against ACs or saves beyond their ability. You know what… it still didn’t work very well because of the aforementioned party variables. That isn’t the case in 5e. If you boost an NPCs AC up or down by 2 it likely isn’t going to make a dramatic difference. Similarly if you add an extra spell per day. Or even a spell of one level higher than they could previously cast. 5e is a forgiving game. The DM should feel confident to mess about with things without needing to follow formulae. Poverty? There are more NPC stat blocks in 2024 MM than in any previous Monster Manual. 46 in 2024 compared to 22 in 2014. Dozens and dozens of examples there of NPCs to show you how to do it. Of more detail and varied levels than ever before too. I love how you can see higher level versions of the same type of NPC. The best advice on creating new creatures for new players… [I]Take an appropriate stat block and adjust it. [/I]Folks have been creating monsters for games for about 50 years now without a set of formulae. Do we really need to have them published in the core book now? [/QUOTE]
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