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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alphastream" data-source="post: 6119145" data-attributes="member: 11365">It sounds like you want the 4E system, plus the 3E system. Is that more or less correct? I think it is a good question whether there is a lighter way to achieve that.The problem with the 3E system is that it takes tremendous time for a DM to make the creature. For the company, designers have to carefully balance everything. If we give a mind flayer the monk class, can it flurry with its tentacles and rip out a creature's brain in one round? (This issue was discussed for 3E). How strong is an orc with 2 levels of barbarian as compared to 2 levels of bard? How strong is it to give a tendriculous/gelatinous cube/etc. monk levels so it can use stunning fist and easily consume a creature? The other side is to really make a class (a level 5 wizard), but have it be a monster race. The 3E method was to require one or more levels in compensation (that creature of race x ends up being a level 2 wizard, because the race is considered to have 3 levels worth of power). All of this created pretty big balance issues. We can abstract it, and create a package. 4E tried to do that with templates, creating a "class template" you would apply, making a normal monster an elite. It required a bit of math, but even that small amount was unpalatable for most, plus being an elite caused all sorts of encounter construction issues. Some templeted 4E creatures were really weak, others very strong. The system really fell into disuse, replace by theme powers. If you wanted the orc to be a psion, you gave it a theme power or two (probably from Dark Sun), and now it felt like it had some mental capabilities (though no one would mistake it for a psionic character). 4E could also do this through custom powers. The orc shaman is just another monster, similar to a melee orc but with just one weak melee power and instead casting spells, plus a racial power that ties it to the orc race (maybe the ability to cast a spell when it dies). For many, this wasn't good enough. The monster powers weren't exactly the same, and some really wanted to have a true class with all the capabilities and to also see the monster's race represented.Are there some ideas for new ways to achieve all of the above, but avoid the problems?</blockquote>

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