Numbers/Rules for Naval combat and transport

[Lamoni]

I'll be running an adventure tonight and it takes place in Eberron in the Lhazaar Principalities. Therefore there will be ships involved and I have background in this area. A few questions...

How big is the deck of an average transport ship?
How would you go about attacking a ship without cannons? How quickly can you do so? (assume things like fireballs would not be used since that destroys the treasure you could otherwise capture).
How fast do they travel?
How large of a crew would you need?
Anything else I should be asking?
Any advice for running naval adventures... any rules sections I should reread?

I don't care if I am completely accurate to real life. I would just like to make sure I don't use any numbers that are too far off the mark. I don't want to have a crew of 20 if they can get by with 5 and I don't want to have a deck that is 80 yards long if the decks on the largest norse ships were only 20 yards, etc.

 

[Aaron2]

How big is the deck of an average transport ship?

I'd say a typical three masted merchant ship (circa 1500s technology) would be about 100 ft. long and about 25 ft. wide. A Chinese Junk from the treasure fleet was about 120 ft. long and almost 30 ft. wide but these were the monsters of their day.

How would you go about attacking a ship without cannons? How quickly can you do so? (assume things like fireballs would not be used since that destroys the treasure you could otherwise capture).

Good question. Pre-gunpowder, you could only affect the other ship by ramming and boarding. Archers were used on ships as late as the 1550s but mostly to prevent boarders since they can't really damage the enemy ship and would require both ships to sail alongside each other which, most likely, wouldn't ever happen. I don't think I've ever seen a real ship* with a catapult. The arc of the shot would interfere with the rigging.

How large of a crew would you need?

20-30 for a decent sized merchant ship, several hundred for a warship.


One last thing. Despite what you learned in Pirates of the Carribean, the -first- thing you roll overboard if you are being chased and need speed are your cannons (or other weapons). If you throw your cargo overboard and get captured, you'll be toast.


Aaron

*except for the rare specialized roman siege boats.

 

[Lamoni]

Thanks a lot Aaron, that helps. Tonight's session should go much smoother now. Can anyone answer the other questions like how fast they travel or any problems that you have seen come up in your adventures?

As far as speed is concerned. They will be traveling about 400 miles. How long should that take? After that they will probably need to sail much further (over 2,000 miles when you include weaving around islands). How long would that take?

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

(1) The average size of a war ship.

And just to point out, I've seen references to Junk ships being in excess of 150 meters in length (yes, 150 meters). Perhaps they were wrong, but I have seen this.

I consider Eberron to be a somewhat "advanved" setting in terms of technology, so I would be tempted to use a vessel of a later date then the medieval galleys and such. A schooner (first used in the 15th century) could contain up to 6 or 7 masts and be well over 300 feet in length. They had a lot of sail which would let them carry a lot of stuff (and being that big provides a lot of area to investigate and search).

If you want a war ship, look at frigates. They were very versitile (and could be used as fast merchant ship though couldn't carry as much as a schooner). Their top area was about 175 feet in length and 43 feet across. They had a large compliment but that was to accompany their large amount of cannons (over 500 people on one vessel).

Just some ideas.


(2) Attacking without cannons. Why?

Ships are made with at least two, if not three hulls by the 17th and 18th centuries. War ships could easily take one heck of a beating (as in dozens of hits and still keep going - they would have people scurrying between the hulls to repair damage as best as they could).

As pirates (as that sounds like what the PCs would be doing) the best thing they could do at first is sink those ships. They want the reputation of sinking ships so that ships will stop and even give up their cargo. The threat of a sinking (and when you're in an ocean in those times, there was almost no change of rescue) is the best threat you can make.

But if you don't wish to use cannons to damage the ship, you use them loaded with two balls connected by a chain and aim at the sails. The objective is to rip the sails to shreds and bring the ship to a halt. From there you come alongside, board the ship, and do everything else the good old fashioned way.

(3) If I remember right (and do not take me word on this), but a fast ship back in those days could make 7 to 9 knots, which is about 15 kilometers an hour. Of course, with a mobile Gust of Wind or such, you could move much faster.

(4) Answered above to the best of my knowledge, though I know a schnoor required a lot fewer people then most other ships their size (I'd put it at no more then 8-10 at a minimum, though not sure of that number).

***

As for anything else, I've never run a naval battle. However, space on ships is a very precious commodity. Even in today's navies, the crews (not the officers) often hotbunk with one another. Back in the day, the crew would sleep in the mess on hammocks that got rolled up into the rafters when they woke up.

Generally speaking, from reality, speed is the key to naval battles. In order to engage, your ship has to be faster then the prey just in order to catch the target.

Other things to consider are shallows and reefs that the prey might try to lose the hunter within, hoping the later doesn't know them well enough or will screw up.

Otherwise, good luck with it!

 

[Henrix]

Excellent summaries, Aaron2 and The Amazing Dingo!

I don't think I've ever seen a real ship* with a catapult.

Catapults firing in an arc, no. But galleys with ballistas shooting spears and greek fire throwers, yes! In [pictures from] byzantian war manuals.
But they were very rare.

My favourite odd ship armament is the roman corvus, a large boarding ramp with a spike meant to be dropped down on punic ships to hold them and to let the roman marines board them under conditions as like firm ground fighting as possible.


Most attacks against ships during any age, pre-, post-gunpowder or modern, are made by a lot of smaller, faster, ships swarming and boarding.
It worked 800 B.C., and it works today*.

* Even if the modern pirate attack is generally done by a single small, silent ship at night. They board in silence and slaughter the sleeping crew. Cost cutting has reduced crews to almost nothing.

 

[Aaron2]

As far as speed is concerned. They will be traveling about 400 miles. How long should that take?

400 miles should takes about 2 days (45 hours) assuming decent winds and point of sail.


Aaron

 

[Stormrunner]

You have two goals: A) reduce the enemy's movement capability so you can catch him, and B) reduce his crew so you can capture the ship.

A) is traditionally done by breaking his masts, shredding his sails/rigging, or snapping off his oars. In a D&D setting, magic is the way to go. No, you don't want to fireball the treasure room, but a few well-placed fireballs can remove most of his sails and rigging, or lightning bolts can shatter small masts or knock spars off of large masts. Gust of Wind is far too short, in both range and duration, to affect a ship's movement, but Control Winds or a summoned Air Elemental can either speed up your own craft or becalm the enemy. A water elemental or friendly merfolk could shatter the foe's rudder or simply drag at the hull to slow him.

For B), Cloudkill is superb - it seeps belowdecks and will kill all of the ordinary sailors below 6th level and inconvenience the higher-level leaders.