D&D 5E Oath of Devotion

[Bladesinger]

So, I'm hoping to get some clarity and look forward to your answers.

Our current party has a Aasimar Paladin of Devotion in the group and we were asked to have a meeting with an Elven Queen who does not have direct authority over us, but we are allied with and so are certainly willing to help her. Turns out, she lied to the King and had an affair and their child is not his. Furthermore, there is proof in a lost journal, and the Queen wants us to recover it to help her cover this up. Here is where it gets sticky....the GM says the Paladin would go along with this to perpetuate the lie for the greater good of the Elven Kingdom, but after reading the Oath of Devotion, I can't see how the Paladin would. It not only says they won't or shouldn't lie, it says they hold other people to their ideals. The player seems to agree with my interpretation, but the GM points to the sidebar that they can commit errors and atone, but I see the sidebar more as if a bad choice is made in the heat of the moment they can atone, not a direct lie that they will become a party to. I am somewhat conflicted, as I can see the GM's point, but....well, I look forward to your insights. Thanks!

 

[jaelis]

I should think this would be up to the player in question, not the DM (or you, for that matter )

 

[rgoodbb]

Wow, did you really join in March 2008 and this is your first post after 9 1/2 years?

*Dispel Silence*

Yeah, up to player.

 

[cbwjm]

So, I'm hoping to get some clarity and look forward to your answers.

Our current party has a Aasimar Paladin of Devotion in the group and we were asked to have a meeting with an Elven Queen who does not have direct authority over us, but we are allied with and so are certainly willing to help her. Turns out, she lied to the King and had an affair and their child is not his. Furthermore, there is proof in a lost journal, and the Queen wants us to recover it to help her cover this up. Here is where it gets sticky....the GM says the Paladin would go along with this to perpetuate the lie for the greater good of the Elven Kingdom, but after reading the Oath of Devotion, I can't see how the Paladin would. It not only says they won't or shouldn't lie, it says they hold other people to their ideals. The player seems to agree with my interpretation, but the GM points to the sidebar that they can commit errors and atone, but I see the sidebar more as if a bad choice is made in the heat of the moment they can atone, not a direct lie that they will become a party to. I am somewhat conflicted, as I can see the GM's point, but....well, I look forward to your insights. Thanks!

My belief is that the player is the one who should decide what their character does, not the DM. If the player agrees with your interpretation then they should be able to go with that.

I'm guessing that the DM has an adventure planned and really wants the party to go along with it and this is one way to make that happen.

 

[Istbor]

I would have to agree that this is that characters player's decision.

(If that means you...)

What kind of repercussions are we talking about should this secret get out? Banishment for the Queen and the child? Execution and exile? Will this throw the whole country into chaos? Will the true father be hunted down? Is that a person of power too? Could this spark a war?

These are all things that should run through the Paladin's head in my opinion. If I expose this lie, what will happen to the people? Am I throwing the realm into war for the sake of one man's pride? (Be that my own, or the Kings?)

Some times, a lie can save lives, and not just those tied immediately to it. It is a tricky situation, which I figure it half the point.

 

[Waterbizkit]

So, I'm hoping to get some clarity and look forward to your answers.

Our current party has a Aasimar Paladin of Devotion in the group and we were asked to have a meeting with an Elven Queen who does not have direct authority over us, but we are allied with and so are certainly willing to help her. Turns out, she lied to the King and had an affair and their child is not his. Furthermore, there is proof in a lost journal, and the Queen wants us to recover it to help her cover this up. Here is where it gets sticky....the GM says the Paladin would go along with this to perpetuate the lie for the greater good of the Elven Kingdom, but after reading the Oath of Devotion, I can't see how the Paladin would. It not only says they won't or shouldn't lie, it says they hold other people to their ideals. The player seems to agree with my interpretation, but the GM points to the sidebar that they can commit errors and atone, but I see the sidebar more as if a bad choice is made in the heat of the moment they can atone, not a direct lie that they will become a party to. I am somewhat conflicted, as I can see the GM's point, but....well, I look forward to your insights. Thanks!

I'm confused, how does the DMs opinion on the subject matter a whit? Contrary to popular belief Dungeon Masters aren't gods. Players determine the actions of their characters, not the DM. Not ever.

The player needs to weigh all the options based on the information the character has available and act how they see fit. Maybe there's more to this than we know, both in and out of game, as others have thought possible, regardless, as everything has been presented I just don't see how the DMs opinion on how the Paladin should act enters into it.

Anyway, that's my quick take based on what we've been presented with.

 

[Sunseeker]

So, I'm hoping to get some clarity and look forward to your answers.

Our current party has a Aasimar Paladin of Devotion in the group and we were asked to have a meeting with an Elven Queen who does not have direct authority over us, but we are allied with and so are certainly willing to help her. Turns out, she lied to the King and had an affair and their child is not his. Furthermore, there is proof in a lost journal, and the Queen wants us to recover it to help her cover this up. Here is where it gets sticky....the GM says the Paladin would go along with this to perpetuate the lie for the greater good of the Elven Kingdom, but after reading the Oath of Devotion, I can't see how the Paladin would. It not only says they won't or shouldn't lie, it says they hold other people to their ideals. The player seems to agree with my interpretation, but the GM points to the sidebar that they can commit errors and atone, but I see the sidebar more as if a bad choice is made in the heat of the moment they can atone, not a direct lie that they will become a party to. I am somewhat conflicted, as I can see the GM's point, but....well, I look forward to your insights. Thanks!

Your problem is right here:

...the GM says...

and

...the GM points...

and

...I can't see how the Paladin would...

The most wonderful thing about 5E is that, unless the player and the DM have some worked out agreement, the player is in complete control of the specifics of their Oath, that's why the Paladin class even suggests a player write out a more detailed Oath, so everyone can be on the same page.

So, while I understand you are coming here for our thoughts, the only thoughts whose matter on the subject are the Paladin's players. I think you should very plainly say to the GM: hey, let the Paladin decide for themselves how they're going to handle this.

You may just find something very important out about your DM.

 

[Seramus]

Sounds like the DM really wants the paladin to go along with this plot hook.
Do the other players want to bite the plot hook? Or is the paladin the only hold out?

 

[Valetudo]

As a dm, I say this is up to player.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So, I'm hoping to get some clarity and look forward to your answers.

Our current party has a Aasimar Paladin of Devotion in the group and we were asked to have a meeting with an Elven Queen who does not have direct authority over us, but we are allied with and so are certainly willing to help her. Turns out, she lied to the King and had an affair and their child is not his. Furthermore, there is proof in a lost journal, and the Queen wants us to recover it to help her cover this up. Here is where it gets sticky....the GM says the Paladin would go along with this to perpetuate the lie for the greater good of the Elven Kingdom, but after reading the Oath of Devotion, I can't see how the Paladin would. It not only says they won't or shouldn't lie, it says they hold other people to their ideals. The player seems to agree with my interpretation, but the GM points to the sidebar that they can commit errors and atone, but I see the sidebar more as if a bad choice is made in the heat of the moment they can atone, not a direct lie that they will become a party to. I am somewhat conflicted, as I can see the GM's point, but....well, I look forward to your insights. Thanks!

I agree with you. Your GM is wrong to try to control how the paladin lives his ideals. It's not his call.