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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6691683" data-attributes="member: 12731">Yeah, my concerns in this regard can be summed up with the following:If you play a martial character, your job is to survive enemy contact ("tank") and output damage ("strike"). Once your build is at (or reasonably near) the top in these two essential areas, then roleplay and characterization enters the picture. What this means is that roleplay and describing your PCs personality and appearance IS important. As long as it doesn't cost you mechanical effiency. Ideally, then, all of the below would be available as comparable builds:* the charismatic swashbuckler, fighting with a rapier and a cape* the honorable knight, fighting with a sword and a shield* the gruff ranger, fighting with two scimitars* the overbearing barbarian, fighting with a greataxe* the laconic war veteran, fighting with a halberdand so on, you get the pictureNow, without feats, I've gathered that the forums consider most or all of these options roughly comparable - in damage output at least.But enter feats, and you'll observe two main things:* since two-weapon fighting uses up your bonus action, the gruff ranger cannot take advantage of most combat feats (notably the "cleave" mechanism)* there exists a few weapons that work with BOTH Great Weapon AND Polearm Master: reach heavy weapons. Now, as I've discussed earlier, there seems to be two ways to combat survivability that overshadow all others: getting a stratospheric AC and getting significantly more HP. In our analysis, this means that you have no business being a melee combatant unless you either 1) sport AC 20 or thereabouts (which means Full Plate) or 2) sport significantly more HP. Note that 1) can obviously be achieved by a Fighter and not only by the Paladin class my player chose. But it is hard to pass up the wealth of survival tricks given to the Paladin for a player not frightened by system complexity. (Especially +Cha to saving throws!!). One concern about the high-AC tank build is that it is not unreasonable for the DM to have foes that find that they are unable to hit switch targets to the squishies; which severely undermines the concept (yes, I know about the Sentinel feat).  In regards to 2) we haven't yet explored taking the maximum-Con Durable build. However, the rules offer something that is probably even better: near universal damage reduction given by the Bear Barbarian. The reason damage reduction is better is of course because it DOUBLES the effectiveness of healing spells. And don't underestimate the psychological effect of having mediocre AC: it ensures foes will want to attack you instead of the squishies.Back to my example builds:It is, to my mind, exceedingly hard to justify playing "charismatic swashbuckler" or "gruff ranger" given that these archetypes can't fully make use of the feats given in the PHB and that they offer only HALF DURABILITY* compared to maximized-AC or maximized-HP builds. (One way of stating this would be: "what were the designers thinking of when they allowed AC 20+ builds and near-universal damage reduction builds in the same game where it's easy to end up with bard or ranger or "flamboyant fighter" stats)   *) my very rough estimation. If we can agree "AC 20 roughly means being hit half as often as AC 16" and "damage reduction means twice the hp", we should be able to agree to this estimate too. I can't overstate my hopes that the Sword Coast book will contain more feats that:1) specifically can't be used by a heavy weapon user2) but can be used by "light" combatants like above3) also: boosts spellcaster might - especially single target control spells feel a wee bit too nerfed in this edition. But damage too: it's somewhat disheartening to realize that your at-will cantrips do less than half the damage of a properly built fighter and that the only way you are able to compete is by getting above-average output of your top spells such as fireball....! Barring that, I might have to ask my players to VOLUNTARILY abstain from damage reduction and full plate and the GWM/PM combo, just to be able to enjoy Out of the Abyss as a campaign with at least minimal challenge. (Without me having to significantly boost the foes that is).In a world without these two build paths with the GWM, PM (and SS I guess) feats, spellcasters should also feel more appreciated.</blockquote>

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