Occult Lore (Atlas Games/Penumbra)

[Kichwas]

I picked this up a few days ago.

Haven't seen any reviews yet so here's my "pre review".
I haven't yet had a full chance to digest the book. However I will say that I think it's the most interesting d20 book put out yet by anybody. The ideas in it are just amazing.

I haven't read enough yet to say the same on the execution of those ideas. But pound for pound it's got more content for price than anything I've purchased to date, possibly including the core rules.

If the execution turns out as good as the ideas, I'd rate it very high on the list of things people should consider. If nothing else it really expands the options for fantasy in d20. From a surface glance it seems to do it all quite gracefully. But a surface glance is all I've been able to render it so far.

Just a brief list of topics:
Alchemy
Astrology
Elementalism
Geomancy - The magic of ley and the land.
Herbalism
Magical Imagination - Magic based on cultural memory
Oneiromancy - Dream magic
Rational Magic - The power of Logic to destroy magic
Spirit Magic - Binding spirits to your will as servants.
Sympathetic Magic - Freeform magic

'Bountiful Botanical' (43 illustrated pages of plants and herbs and how they can affect you)
Grimoire (29 pages of new spells).

Unlike most of the other variant magic d20 sources, this one relies mostly on using the core d20 magic rules in new ways.

For example the Sympathetic Mages are 'one the fly' spell casters who create effects as they need them. One way they do this is by using permutations of the standard spell lists, with some rules for going beyond that once you're comfortable with it.

That all just seems to serve to make it easier to slot the ideas from this book into a 'normal campaign'. Unlike say, the nightmares one would have trying to get Sovereign Stone's or Chaos Magic's systems in alongside Clerics, Wizards and Sorcerers.

Of course that's a surface glance giving me that impression. But it looks like the book really benifits from being so late onto the d20 scene. I suspect these authors have had a chance to see everybody else do it wrong and ensure they did it right.

I don't recognize the list of names:
Keith Baker, Adam Bank, Chris Jones, Scott Reeves, Elton Robb.
So I don't know how established they are.

 

[Nightfall]

Just curious acardy my friend, but how does the Geomancy in this book compare to the Masters of the Wild Geomancer Pr-class?

 

[Tsyr]

Geomancy in Occult Lore is mostly about finding, using, creating, or modifing areas of positive or negative magic energy. It's vaugly similar to the concept of Feng Shui.


While in a positive or negative magic zone, your power is either boosted or decreased (Expressed as a percentage to certain spell variables)... if the zone is REALLY powerful, either positivly or negativly, they act almost like little wild-magic zones... you roll on a D10 to determine th exact effect.


It also has a page that includes rules for dowsing (You know... finding water and stuff with a stick? That sorta thing, only more uses than just water... in addition to finding water, you can also use it to find out information on magic zones), as well as rules for the creation and modification of magic zones.

It's not a class or a prestige class, in this case, but feats and skills.

And Arcady, I've had it for about a week and read it over... except for some slight disapointment with how they worked rational magic (I think its a bit silly), I've VERY pleased with the book.

 

[Tsyr]

I thought I would provide some more details, as long as I'm at it.

Alchemy and Alchemists mostly deal with curative potions and other forms of non-magical healing. There is some information about creation Philosopher's Gold, too. Might be interesting for a low-magic game, and is good for NPC healers, tribal healers, etc.

Astrology is sorta a form of temporal divination, as you might guess. They get some pretty interesting abilities... For example, by predicting the exact best time to begin a task (And it can be hours , days, months, etc from then), the people embarking on it get bonuses to reflect the fact that it's the "ideal" time. This is in addition to more typical forms of "fortune telling".

Elementalism is just what it sounds like, elemental magic. It's basicly just vancian casting, but instead of, say, being a Necromancer, you might be an Ignamancer.

Geomancy I already detailed above... my second favorite section.

Herbalism is like a more magical version of alchemy... lots more you can do with herbalism.

Magical Imagination is kinda mis-labled... closer would be to call it magical memory. The meat of this section is the ability to store and retrieve spells in a kind of comunal "spell node", useable by a group called the Heralds, a group of wanderers.

Oneiromancy is my favorite section... its dream magic. Very similar in some ways to Tel'Arion'Rhiod (SP?) from Wheel of Time in flavor. Rules for oneiromancers, for them bringing non-oneriomancers into the dream, dream combat, dream manifestations, etc etc etc. VERY detailed, very cool, very flavorful.

Rational Magic is sorta like the power of disbelieve... as I said, this was the one section of the book that sorta let me down, I just don't like the approach they took. A user of these powers basicly has disbelieve so strong it manifests as special abilities... enhanced spell resistance, etc. Those parts are cool, but the problem is that some of the abilities are a bit silly... for example, if a person disbelieves in a magical being enough, it will transform into a similar-but-nonmagical version... For example, a unicorn or pegasus becomes a white horse, a sphynx becomes a lion, a dragon becomes an overgrown crocidile, etc. Don't like this, it's too magical for a class that is supposed to be the antithesis of magic.

Spirit Magic is sorta like a cross between necromancy and shamanism... if you are familiar with the Necroscope series of books, it reminded me of these, only in a more magical way.

Sympathetic Magic is kinda like the sterotypical "voodoo" magic... mostly non-combat magic that depends on the strengh of connection to the target (called sympathy)... Hence, sympathetic mages tend to use things like symbolic dolls, locks of hair, bits of the targets clothing, etc. Incredible distances (Miles) are possible, if the sympathies are strong enough. Perhaps better for NPCs, or for PCs in a low-combat, city intrigue type game or similar.

The book of plants is pretty cool too... lots of them, well detailed, with illustrations.

 

[Psion]

My mini-mini-review

Onieromancy is VERY cool and possibly the most worthwhile chapter in the book.

Astrology is also pretty cool.

There are lots of chapters that you can pull parts out of and not use the whole thing. Frex, you could use the astrology rules without using the astrologer class.

I doubt this book will please those who are after alternate (non-slot) magic systems. For the most part the systems build on existing systems.

Alchemy & Herbalism -- I think bastion did it better.

Rational magic -- smacks too much of mage. I do not consider this a good thing.

Probable rating - 4/5. Rule material is pretty solid, but a lot of ideas didn't really enthuse my. Chances are that a given GM will only use one or two chapters of the book.

 

[Tewligan]

This is one of the many things I kept coming back to in the vendor's hall at Origins this weekend. I stopped by the booth at least once a day to flip through it, chew my lip thoughtfully, and finally move on. Why, oh why, must there be so many things that I want to buy?! I ultimately passed it up, but I'm thinking I may have to swing by my FLGS tomorrow during lunch to snag it. Sigh...I'm a moron...

 

[Aitch Eye]

I don't recognize the list of names:
Keith Baker, Adam Bank, Chris Jones, Scott Reeves, Elton Robb.
So I don't know how established they are.

Chris Jones posts here as Mindcrime. He wrote the Book of Taverns for Necromancer, and contributed to Arms & Armorand Spells & Magic for Bastion, and the Penumbra Bestiary for Atlas. He co-wrote The Slayer's Guide to Yuan-Ti.

He has a number of new concoctions based on his herbalism chapter posted on the Bombshell Studios website:

http://www.bombshellstudios.com/d20/

There's quite a bit more really nice, professional free stuff; including monsters, cool and unusual businesses to drop into a campaign, some nature based spells and feats, and a shaman and alternate druid class.

 

[Schmoe]

Funny you should mention this. I just picked it up yesterday, and so far I have been very impressed. Every section has rules, philosophies, and stories that bring a particular form or type of magic to life. The different forms of magic just cry out for adventures to be based around them. Another strong point is that the authors have obviously incorporated a decent amount of historical research (eg "computer" vs. "astrologer"). On top of that, the editing is very solid. So far I've only noticed some minor errors in verb tense or duplicate wording.

I've only read up through Geomancy so far, but it's been worth the money already. I just have a couple minor quibbles. First, the rules are, in most cases, rather involved and complex. It would require serious effort to actually use them during play. Second, the "transformed" elemental quality of the elementalist just doesn't make sense to me. I dare anyone to make sense of the rules as written.

Like I said, though, those quibbles are minor. If the rest of the book is as good as what I've read so far, it will definitely be worth every penny.

 

[Tsyr]

I doubt this book will please those who are after alternate (non-slot) magic systems. For the most part the systems build on existing systems.

Sympathetic magic and (shudder) rational magic aside, you're pretty much correct there... This DID kinda let me down, with some of the types of magic there was potential to try different things that they didn't take. Not a PROBLEM exactly, just not exactly what I would have done. For example, while elementalism is very well done, I will continue to use Sov. Stone's elemental system for my elemental mages... similar conception, different casting mechanics.

Alchemy & Herbalism -- I think bastion did it better.

As if I didn't want this book already for Dragon Magic alone, now I REALLY want this book... Curse you, Psion!

Rational magic -- smacks too much of mage. I do not consider this a good thing.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here... I agree that I didn't like Rational Magic, but most of my problems stem from it being way too magical in function to fit the image they were trying for, IMHO. Could you elaborate what exactly it is you didn't like?

Chances are that a given GM will only use one or two chapters of the book.

This is probably true, however this is probably true of any "Big Book of Generic Stuff" type book. I imagine it's true for the similar book from Bastion, it's probably true with Monte's e-books, etc etc. For myself I plan to use Geomancy and Onieromancy, as well as possibly herbalism (for NPCs) and rational magic (Again, for NPC "witches" and similar), but the rest of the stuff, while cool (except for Sympathetic magic), just doesn't really seem right for my campagin.

As a side note, if you run a Wheel of Time game, and want some more concrete rules for the dream world, Onieromancy might be of interest to you.

 

[Psion]

As if I didn't want this book already for Dragon Magic alone, now I REALLY want this book... Curse you, Psion!

I am uncertain what you mean. Dragon magic is in bastion's Spells & Magic, alchemy and herbalism are in Bastion's Alchemy & Herbalism.

As long as we are drawing comparisons here, Bastion's supplements focus largely on prestige classes as sort of "advanced fields of study" while Occult Lore introduces more core classes that are different from the get-go. I think which of these is preferable to you is a matter of taste.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here... I agree that I didn't like Rational Magic, but most of my problems stem from it being way too magical in function to fit the image they were trying for, IMHO. Could you elaborate what exactly it is you didn't like?

I've never liked the "skepticism dampens magic" paradigm. I can sort of understand why they went that route in Mage (and for that matter, Palladium's Beyond the Supernatural) because the characters live in a world where magic is greeted with skepicism, but in an overtly fantasy setting (i.e., most d20 system fantasy settings), I find the concept a bad fit.

This is probably true, however this is probably true of any "Big Book of Generic Stuff" type book.

Yup. You will see I have similar comments in my "Touched by the gods" review. However, I feel this gives you more for your money that TBTG does, and has better mechanics to boot, so I think my review will fare a bit better.

I imagine it's true for the similar book from Bastion, it's probably true with Monte's e-books, etc etc.[/quotes]

Spells & Magic is similar, but smaller--which is somewhat a bad thing, since it is also 5/6 the cost of occult lore, so smart money goes to occult lore if you are talking about game utility. However, I must say that Spells & Magic has some of the best interior art in a d20 system product, including several full-page color plates by Stephanie Law.

Alchemy and Herbalists, I'll disagree with you on. It is more a consistent whole.

Monte's book I will also disagree with you on. The classes and spells can easily be pulled out and used separately with much less accomodation than the bigger chunks in Occult Lore.