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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeff Carlsen" data-source="post: 6038989" data-attributes="member: 61749">Now that I've had some time to digest the changes, I have some thoughts on the classes.Each class seems to be built on a similar model. You get an attack bonus, some front loaded class features, and a list of abilities that your class draws from. Maneuvers for Fighters and Rogues, spells for Clerics and Wizards.Each class also gets a sub-class, such as a fighting style, scheme, tradition, and deity. Conceptually, this is a solid system, but the current implementation has a couple problems. First, other than the Fighter's extra attack, classes get absolutely no unique class abilities after first level. I'm not comfortable with this. Second, the sub-classes of every class feel incomplete.Cleric: The cleric's deities are the most complete example of a sub class. The abilities they grant are in addition to those granted by the base class, and interact with the clerics spellcasting mechanics.Where they fail is that they lack any of the "class" package options that the other classes use, such as suggested background or equipment options. Also, I agree that a cleric's deity should have an impact on their weapon and armor proficiencies.Fighter: The fighter has the exact opposite problem as the cleric. Fighting styles are nothing but class packages. They don't provide any unique features. I think that the fighter should get to choose maneuvers like a wizard does spells, and that fighting styles should provide both extra maneuvers and a class feature that truly expresses the fighting style.Rogue: Rogues schemes are probably the worst. They're just a package of skills and maneuvers, but without any of the other class package options. They lack anything special to the class or the scheme.Wizard: Traditions are cool, with features that make each one unique and that augment the class's native spellcasting. But, they lack any of the package options.I worry about there being too much symmetry among classes, but in my mind the solution to that is to make sure that their special class features are, in fact, special. For example, I don't mind that the rogue gets maneuvers or expertise dice--but in exchange, fighting styles need to look more like wizard traditions. They need to augment certain maneuvers and promote an actual fighting style.In addition, I think that every class should get at least two unique class features over the course of ten levels. Perhaps at 5th and 10th level.</blockquote>

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