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October Playtest: Yay or Nay?
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<blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 6041131" data-attributes="member: 17077"><p>While I've been vocal about things that I disliked in the previous packets (after all, that is the point of the playtest, to provide constructive criticism), my overall attitude toward 5e has been very positive. And then the new playtest packet arrived. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it seems like this packet is just filled with changes that I don't like. The only things I really liked were giving players 4 skills to start and the new cleric deity archetypes. But then there were quite a few things that really irked me.</p><p></p><p>* The new skill list is terrible. Spot and Listen are separate skills again, they brought back Use Rope, and they even have a Knowledge skill for Wars (why is that not part of History?). It's like they copied the 3.x skill list and then managed to make it even worse. It's like they didn't even really take the time to think it through, either. Spot and Listen are separate skills, but Stealth is still undivided. So what are people supposed to do to notice a hidden character? Do they roll spot? listen? both?</p><p></p><p>* The rogue feels like nothing more than an inferior fighter that has some extra skills. Sneak attack, for example, is in every way inferior to Deadly Strike. I'm not necessarily against the idea of rogues getting weapon expertise, (though fighters need *something* that other classes don't get), but this implementation is poor.</p><p></p><p>* The new Two-Weapon Fighting and Critical Hit rules are simply awful. The TWF rules are particularly bad. For one thing, giving disadvantage on both attacks means I'd have to roll four times each time I attack. Yuck. On top of that, rogues who are one of the classes that people often enjoy using TWF with, can *never* sneak attack with two weapons, because the TWF rules prevent them from ever having advantage.</p><p></p><p>* The removal of at-will cantrips/orisons is extremely aggravating. Yes, you can can still get them from your tradition or domain, but with the exception of the academic wizard, they're chosen for you. Not only did they vastly cut down on the number of spell slots magic users have, they don't even have the at-will cantrips to fall back on anymore.</p><p></p><p>* The wizard traditions sounded like such a great idea when they were talking about them, but the current implementation of them is uninspiring, to say the least. It's like they took the wizard from the last playtest packet, took away his at-will cantrips and half of his daily spells, and then gave it a small fraction of those things back via traditon. Gee thanks. What's worse, the traditions totally rob wizards of freedom of choice. Your signature spell is chosen for you. Your at-will cantrips are chosen for you. All warmages, for example, are thunderwave specialists. Why? Why can't I choose the spell(s) I specialize in?</p><p></p><p>* Clerics once again have Turn Undead as a base ability, whether they or their god have any reason to care about undead at all. Ugh. Another big step backward. I think the channel divinity idea had alot of potential.</p><p></p><p>* Apparently only rogues can pick locks or disable traps now, since only they are proficient with theive's tools. Gee thanks! I'm sure non-rogues with the thief background really appreciate that!</p><p></p><p>* Specialties just feel... boring. Alot of the feats were ruined too. The Magic user specialty, for example, used to give you 2 at-will cantrips, which opened up alot of really cool character concepts. Now, that feat lets you use one cantrip PER DAY. This playtest packet just seems to be anti-fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Falling Icicle, post: 6041131, member: 17077"] While I've been vocal about things that I disliked in the previous packets (after all, that is the point of the playtest, to provide constructive criticism), my overall attitude toward 5e has been very positive. And then the new playtest packet arrived. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it seems like this packet is just filled with changes that I don't like. The only things I really liked were giving players 4 skills to start and the new cleric deity archetypes. But then there were quite a few things that really irked me. * The new skill list is terrible. Spot and Listen are separate skills again, they brought back Use Rope, and they even have a Knowledge skill for Wars (why is that not part of History?). It's like they copied the 3.x skill list and then managed to make it even worse. It's like they didn't even really take the time to think it through, either. Spot and Listen are separate skills, but Stealth is still undivided. So what are people supposed to do to notice a hidden character? Do they roll spot? listen? both? * The rogue feels like nothing more than an inferior fighter that has some extra skills. Sneak attack, for example, is in every way inferior to Deadly Strike. I'm not necessarily against the idea of rogues getting weapon expertise, (though fighters need *something* that other classes don't get), but this implementation is poor. * The new Two-Weapon Fighting and Critical Hit rules are simply awful. The TWF rules are particularly bad. For one thing, giving disadvantage on both attacks means I'd have to roll four times each time I attack. Yuck. On top of that, rogues who are one of the classes that people often enjoy using TWF with, can *never* sneak attack with two weapons, because the TWF rules prevent them from ever having advantage. * The removal of at-will cantrips/orisons is extremely aggravating. Yes, you can can still get them from your tradition or domain, but with the exception of the academic wizard, they're chosen for you. Not only did they vastly cut down on the number of spell slots magic users have, they don't even have the at-will cantrips to fall back on anymore. * The wizard traditions sounded like such a great idea when they were talking about them, but the current implementation of them is uninspiring, to say the least. It's like they took the wizard from the last playtest packet, took away his at-will cantrips and half of his daily spells, and then gave it a small fraction of those things back via traditon. Gee thanks. What's worse, the traditions totally rob wizards of freedom of choice. Your signature spell is chosen for you. Your at-will cantrips are chosen for you. All warmages, for example, are thunderwave specialists. Why? Why can't I choose the spell(s) I specialize in? * Clerics once again have Turn Undead as a base ability, whether they or their god have any reason to care about undead at all. Ugh. Another big step backward. I think the channel divinity idea had alot of potential. * Apparently only rogues can pick locks or disable traps now, since only they are proficient with theive's tools. Gee thanks! I'm sure non-rogues with the thief background really appreciate that! * Specialties just feel... boring. Alot of the feats were ruined too. The Magic user specialty, for example, used to give you 2 at-will cantrips, which opened up alot of really cool character concepts. Now, that feat lets you use one cantrip PER DAY. This playtest packet just seems to be anti-fun. [/QUOTE]
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