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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 2839228" data-attributes="member: 18363">In a way true, but that is just about all the creature has going for it. It only has 47 hp (average), it only moves 30 ft (or, once per minute, 200 ft for one round), its AC is only 18 (flatfoot 16, touch 11), which, by level 8, nearly everyone should be hitting all the time - even the poor BAB classes, it has no resistances or immunities, and its Int and Cha are so low that any poison or spell that does damage to either will paralyze the creature. Its will save is only +3, so any attack that affects such would have no real resistance. The only reason it even qualifies for its CR 8 is due to its damage output due to its multiple tentacles. Note that it can only make one tentacle attack or one bite attack if has moved that round, as it lacks Spring Attack or any monster equivalent. Ranged attacks might be difficult underwater, but with only 47 hp and AC 18 such could quickly put an end to it. Rays (against AC 11 touch) would have little difficulty hitting it. Your team was probably 8th level, so ignoring fighters for a moment, let's see what the casters can do: Summon Monster 4 -- Fiendish large Shark: good swim speed, strong bite, some (unnecessary) resistance, dark vision-- Ooze Mephit: breath weapon deals 1d4 acid that imposes -4 to AC & -2 to attack rolls for 3 rnds if damage occurs. The oct will likely make the save for half damage (1 or 2 pts), but any damage at all and the penalty applies. -- Huge Fiendish Viper: bite deals 1d6+4+poison (1d6 Con, DC 14). It also has Impr Init, Run, a swim speed (20 ft), and a grapple equal to the octopus - so a better chance of escaping the grapple and thus the bonus damage.Charm Monster: even with the +5 due to being attacked, the creature has a chance of failing its saveCrushing Despair: No +5 bonus to help it this time: "Each affected creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls."Ice Storm: 3d6 bludgeoning, 2d6 cold damage, for a total average of 10.5 + 7.0 damage - a third of the creature's life. Bestow Curse: No +5 bonus to help it here either. -- -6 to an ability score could reduce its chance for successful grapple greatly (Str); placing this in Con will all but kill the creature, esp it followed by Phantasmal Killer-- -4 to attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks could really make the fight easier - this is the one I would consider using-- 50% chance each turn of taking no action would quickly kill it. The problem is that it is a "creature touched' spell, but that is what "Spectral Hand" is for. Phantasmal Killer: The will save to disbelieve is unlikely to succeed. The Fortitude save might - unless a means of lowering it is used. A save or die effect that grants 10.5 damage (average, a quarter of the creature's life) on a successful save.Rainbow Pattern: it affects up to 24 HD of creatures. The oct is only 8 HD. Once facinated it will follow the lights like a puppy. Of only limited usefulness, but could keep the creature busy while the rest of the party heals up and prepares for another attackRay of Exhaustion: On a successful save the creature takes -2 to Str and Dex and cannot take any strenuous action without becoming exhausted. On a failed save (more likely if the Con is first lowered by Bestow Curse, Viper bite, etc) the octopus takes -6 to Dex and Str and moves at half speed. I seem to recall something about it being more limited in how many attacks, etc it can make, but that may be 3.0e I'm thinking about. Vampiric Touch (likely via a Spectral Hand) deals 4d6 damage (average 14 pts) and heals the caster the damage dealt. Fireball (you knew it had to be in here somewhere, right?): deals 8d6 damage (ave: 28 dmg - half the oct's life), meaning it has the potential to completely kill the creature in one hit. Note that there is a save for half, but a quarter the creatu're life is still impressive. Lightning Bolt - as fireball it can deal impressive damage - potentially killing the creature outright, albeit with a save for halfDeep Slumber: why not put the creature to sleep for a few rounds? It affects up to 10HD of creatures, and the oct is only 8 HD. Note that a sleeping creature is helpless - meaning a coup de gras attack is perhaps possible. Of course, if you fail to deal enough damage it does wake up. It lasts up to 1 minute per level - more than enough time to get by, heal up, prepare a 'surpise' attack (due to its helpless nature), etcBlindness / Deafness: The fort save is a problem until you lower the Con a bit, but otherwise a blind octopus is potentially less troublesome as it does not have Blind fight and so all PCs have 50% concealment against it. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/And these are just the casters (Sor / Wiz mostly) ! The Fighters are likely dealing some notable damage themselves. A mightly longbow (+3) is dealing 1d8+3 +more based upon weapon enhancement (perhaps +2), feats (point blank shot +1, weapon specialization +2), and class specials (ranger +2 or +4 if animals are a favored enemy), etc. Typical BAB for a fighter is +8+str, so presuming a Str of 20 (16, +2 from leveling, +2 str item) then you are typically doing d20 + 13 vs AC 18 - a 75% chance of success! Even with the second attack at -5 you still have a 50% chance of success against the creature's AC. Note that the creature is not immune to Sneak Attack (+4d6 at this level). If the rogue flanks every attack is a sneak attack - and the AC is low enough that even the rogue can perhaps get by it 50-60% of the time. The only problem is if you move in close. Note that if the party surprises the octopus, the rogue can throw a dagger that round from 30 ft away to deal 1d4 + 4d6 sneak attack (ave: 16.5 dmg, a third of the creature's life). _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/So the encounter is not that difficult, at least not if common spells are prepared and a ranged specialist is among the party - especially if you have surprise and a rogue with a throwing dagger.</blockquote>

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