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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tigh" data-source="post: 4839610" data-attributes="member: 83951">OD&D = social mobility, 4e does not  If someone with a modern education went far into the past they could contend with any sorcerer on the basis of knowledge and theory.  Social mobility used to be a big part of Americas' self image compared to what used to be called the old world.  It appears to me that this trend has come full cycle.  Now people dream of being married into royalty, getting lucrative jobs serving the oil rich, and being "discovered" by some existing authority.  A character made in 4e is best served by viewing how they can contribute to the group they belong too.  That sense of belonging seems to be the guiding star unto itself.  One can be part of a great team and do amazing things.  Never mind that that team will only go on adventures that are provided for it.  Defining it's own adventure or quest seems to be extinct.  Look at player expectations.  If the tomb of an ancient sorcerer is opened they fully expect it to be more powerful than any one of them alone.  Ancient knowledge is easily accepted as more valid and more powerful than our own.  If that sorcerer befriends the party, rewards them for helping, and sets about subjugating the medieval population for a new monolith project the party has no problem with it.  Particularly if the promise is that upon completion the sorcerer will be able to share the most powerful spell of their lost civilization with the party.     And if that spell came at the cost of thousands of lives in forced labor, the monolith dominated the country side, and turned out to be a minor first level spell?  What then.  But 4e DM's would never do that.  They would introduce some super spell off the level charts at a new level of power.  The idea that some geeky repressed person trapped under the status quo is the source of the most powerful spell is gone.  Players will assume the person is secretly receiving instructions or that they dug it up somewhere.  In fact what is the best promotion that a 4e party can offer any NPC.  That's right.  Membership in the group.  Nothing more.  No longer are the phrases like "king maker", "discoverer of", and "inventor" heard.  But I bet you they can talk for days on end about how things are fine they way they are, and one should learn to appreciate what they have, and even that these thoughts are dangerous and I should be stopped.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Tigh</blockquote>

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