Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 9252029" data-attributes="member: 4303"><p>Technically, the "Last Ship" is the one which Cirdan and Celeborn take some time in the Fourth Age. It must be after year FoA 171, as a note in the <em>Thain's Book</em> - transcribed from the <em>Red Book of Westmarch</em> says that Cirdan might still live at the Grey Havens. Arwen also has the opportunity to depart after Aragorn's death in FoA 120.</p><p></p><p>While there are some elements in Tolkien's evolving legendarium which are inconsistent with the overall lore, I don't think the examples you've picked fit the bill very well. It seems to me that the theme of exceptionalism is usually used purposely to illustrate deviation from what is <em>normal, natural, the proper order of things</em> and serves rather to strengthen the underlying motifs. This can be as the result of sorcery, the grace of the Valar, or Eru's personal intervention ("providence").</p><p></p><p>I think there's also a world of difference between "things we don't necessarily understand about Middle-Earth because they aren't made explicit" and "things which contradict established lore in Middle-Earth."</p><p></p><p>I think that Beorn, and the giants from The Hobbit are better illustrations.</p><p></p><p>These are functions of the corrupting influence of the Ring, and serve that motif.</p><p></p><p>Bombadil might be Eru or the author inserting himself into the story; he is certainly an exception. Goldberry is a "not-known" but we might reasonably infer that she is a maia; Old Man Willow is consistent with the remains of the Primeval Forest, and the notion of "Ents becoming tree-ish/trees becoming ent-ish."</p><p></p><p>Again, illustrating the unnatural effects of sorcery.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure whether you're referring to the Palantir of Minas Tirith or in the Tower Hills.</p><p></p><p>Well, the Witch-King, Galadriel and Sauron all "do magic," and I'm not sure that we're required to see the Mouth of Sauron do magic "on-screen" for his authenticity as a sorcerer to be confirmed.</p><p></p><p>Boromir's journey is exceptional.</p><p></p><p>See the note above regarding the date of the Last Ship. And the Gimli thing is definitely an "it is told" or an "if this be true" type thing; it is purposely placed in the region of speculation.</p><p></p><p>Yes, and they are a function of divine grace or they are unnatural; deviant; contrary to the proper order of things</p><p></p><p>I can't say I agree with your premise, or the examples you've used to illustrate it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sepulchrave II, post: 9252029, member: 4303"] Technically, the "Last Ship" is the one which Cirdan and Celeborn take some time in the Fourth Age. It must be after year FoA 171, as a note in the [I]Thain's Book[/I] - transcribed from the [I]Red Book of Westmarch[/I] says that Cirdan might still live at the Grey Havens. Arwen also has the opportunity to depart after Aragorn's death in FoA 120. While there are some elements in Tolkien's evolving legendarium which are inconsistent with the overall lore, I don't think the examples you've picked fit the bill very well. It seems to me that the theme of exceptionalism is usually used purposely to illustrate deviation from what is [I]normal, natural, the proper order of things[/I] and serves rather to strengthen the underlying motifs. This can be as the result of sorcery, the grace of the Valar, or Eru's personal intervention ("providence"). I think there's also a world of difference between "things we don't necessarily understand about Middle-Earth because they aren't made explicit" and "things which contradict established lore in Middle-Earth." I think that Beorn, and the giants from The Hobbit are better illustrations. These are functions of the corrupting influence of the Ring, and serve that motif. Bombadil might be Eru or the author inserting himself into the story; he is certainly an exception. Goldberry is a "not-known" but we might reasonably infer that she is a maia; Old Man Willow is consistent with the remains of the Primeval Forest, and the notion of "Ents becoming tree-ish/trees becoming ent-ish." Again, illustrating the unnatural effects of sorcery. I'm not sure whether you're referring to the Palantir of Minas Tirith or in the Tower Hills. Well, the Witch-King, Galadriel and Sauron all "do magic," and I'm not sure that we're required to see the Mouth of Sauron do magic "on-screen" for his authenticity as a sorcerer to be confirmed. Boromir's journey is exceptional. See the note above regarding the date of the Last Ship. And the Gimli thing is definitely an "it is told" or an "if this be true" type thing; it is purposely placed in the region of speculation. Yes, and they are a function of divine grace or they are unnatural; deviant; contrary to the proper order of things I can't say I agree with your premise, or the examples you've used to illustrate it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"
Top