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Of all the complaints about 3.x systems... do you people actually allow this stuff ?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5792465" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>It depends what you mean. I'm happy for time to be a factor in the fiction ("If we don't rescue the prisoners in time, they'll all be sacrificed!"). But if it's going to be a factor in <em>resolution</em>, I want that to play out onstage ("Oh know - the gnoll demon priest is about to sacrifice those prisoners, and there's a demon and an ogre in the way - do you think you can get through there to rescue them?" - as it happens, the players in my game adopted defensive tactics at the start of the encounter and lost one of the prisoners).</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/3/" target="_blank">This passage</a> has influenced quite a bit how I think about and adjudicate ingame time (and some other things as well - the bolding is mine):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>Simulationism over-riding Narrativism </u></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*A weapon does precisely the same damage range regardless of the emotional relationship between wielder and target. (True for RuneQuest, not true for Hero Wars) </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*A player is chastised for taking the potential intensity of a future confrontation into account when deciding what the character is doing in a current scene, such as revealing an important secret when the PC is unaware of its importance.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*<strong>The time to traverse town with super-running is deemed insufficient to arrive at the scene, with reference to distance and actions at the scene, such that the villain's bomb does blow up the city.</strong> (The rules for DC Heroes specifically dictate that this be the appropriate way to GM such a scene). </p><p></p><p>Conversely, when framing narratively intense scenes is allowed to override simulationist concerns, the hero will arrive "just in time" to try and stop the villain detonating the bomb (or sacrificing the prisoners, or . . .).</p><p></p><p>A related comment - when Gygax says in the DMG that there can be no meaningful campaign without properly tracking time and treating it as a player resource, he is wrong. For some sorts of play - especially operational gamist play - what he says is true. But there are other ways to play the game. Even for the sort of dungeon exploration play described in Moldvay Basic, time is not as important as Gygax suggests. It rations wandering monsters, but wandering monsters in Basic can be useful source of XP, and out of the dungeon time is not tracked at all.</p><p></p><p>You'll have to elaborate, because I'm not sure I follow the question. Generally, resting in my games is not played out - we cut to the end of the rest.</p><p></p><p>If you are asking whether I am willing to ambush resting PCs, then the answer is "yes". But the ambush will not be resolved offstage.</p><p></p><p>One version of this that I have used is to relate extended rests to skill challenge success - if you fail in your skill challenge, then you don't have time to rest, or can't find a suitably restful place, or whatever. One potential downside of this approach, though, is that it can produce a cascading, positive feedback dynamic, where success breeds less challenge breeds success - whereas arguably, dramatic pacing is better served by success being followed by a <em>greater</em> challenge.</p><p></p><p>So anyway, an ongoing puzzle for me in my 4e game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5792465, member: 42582"] It depends what you mean. I'm happy for time to be a factor in the fiction ("If we don't rescue the prisoners in time, they'll all be sacrificed!"). But if it's going to be a factor in [I]resolution[/I], I want that to play out onstage ("Oh know - the gnoll demon priest is about to sacrifice those prisoners, and there's a demon and an ogre in the way - do you think you can get through there to rescue them?" - as it happens, the players in my game adopted defensive tactics at the start of the encounter and lost one of the prisoners). [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/3/]This passage[/url] has influenced quite a bit how I think about and adjudicate ingame time (and some other things as well - the bolding is mine): [indent][U]Simulationism over-riding Narrativism [/U] *A weapon does precisely the same damage range regardless of the emotional relationship between wielder and target. (True for RuneQuest, not true for Hero Wars) *A player is chastised for taking the potential intensity of a future confrontation into account when deciding what the character is doing in a current scene, such as revealing an important secret when the PC is unaware of its importance. *[B]The time to traverse town with super-running is deemed insufficient to arrive at the scene, with reference to distance and actions at the scene, such that the villain's bomb does blow up the city.[/B] (The rules for DC Heroes specifically dictate that this be the appropriate way to GM such a scene). [/indent] Conversely, when framing narratively intense scenes is allowed to override simulationist concerns, the hero will arrive "just in time" to try and stop the villain detonating the bomb (or sacrificing the prisoners, or . . .). A related comment - when Gygax says in the DMG that there can be no meaningful campaign without properly tracking time and treating it as a player resource, he is wrong. For some sorts of play - especially operational gamist play - what he says is true. But there are other ways to play the game. Even for the sort of dungeon exploration play described in Moldvay Basic, time is not as important as Gygax suggests. It rations wandering monsters, but wandering monsters in Basic can be useful source of XP, and out of the dungeon time is not tracked at all. You'll have to elaborate, because I'm not sure I follow the question. Generally, resting in my games is not played out - we cut to the end of the rest. If you are asking whether I am willing to ambush resting PCs, then the answer is "yes". But the ambush will not be resolved offstage. One version of this that I have used is to relate extended rests to skill challenge success - if you fail in your skill challenge, then you don't have time to rest, or can't find a suitably restful place, or whatever. One potential downside of this approach, though, is that it can produce a cascading, positive feedback dynamic, where success breeds less challenge breeds success - whereas arguably, dramatic pacing is better served by success being followed by a [I]greater[/I] challenge. So anyway, an ongoing puzzle for me in my 4e game. [/QUOTE]
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Of all the complaints about 3.x systems... do you people actually allow this stuff ?
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