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Of iron, wood and flesh - a 4E ZEITGEIST chronicle
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<blockquote data-quote="VisanidethDM" data-source="post: 7390397" data-attributes="member: 6694821"><p>Hey! </p><p></p><p>Answering your questions in order:</p><p></p><p>1. my players are old hats at pretty much every form of D&D (the group's age ranged from 35 to 45). 4E is our favourite incarnation of the system; my players have grown up on Warhammer and similar games and are really not intimidated by complex combat systems. We also strongly appreciate how the system allows the DM to be antagonistic and the players to still come on top, something other editions don't really handle well.</p><p>We picked Zeitgeist because after reading the first 7 or so adventures I realized it capitalized on the strength of the system by having few and far between combats that were spectacular and challenging. I think 4E really shines when you divorce it from the "6 fights workday" formula that is D&D's standard, and Zeitgeist does precisely that. I would be much more scared of running it in, say, 5E, because 5E is a game where certain characters and classes become <u>a lot</u> more powerful if they can blow their entire arsenal in a single fight.</p><p></p><p>2. I can imagine playtesting 4E to be a slog. We ran the first two sessions so far (3 hours or so each) and we barely got to the players being briefed about the Countess' invasion of Axis Island. The players are still introducing the characters and getting familiar with them, so I'm expecting to get up to speed in a few more sessions. In our last 4E game we had 3 to 4 hour sessions and we ultimately ran anything between 2 and 5 big fights in that time. Fights can be long in 4E, but they are also <strong>FUN</strong>. We came from a long hiatus playing simplier and more narrative games (mostly WHFRPG, Savage Worlds and 5E) and the fight with them chasing Sokana on multiple levels, with her teleporting across gratings, the avenger shoving her around to get her in line of sight of the artificer fighting on the upper level and the warforged pulling the rod out of the furnace with his "lighting whip" (which we have reskinned as an electrified grappling hook) power was a blast.</p><p>If your players are creative the mechanics of 4E become wonderful ways to tell stories and visualize the combat, giving it life. One of the players at my table, during our last run of Paizo's pirate adventure path (Skulls and Shackles) used Cleave (hit a dude for damage, hit a dude next to him for some more damage) with his Orc Fighter and looking at the fluff said "I take the first guy, lift him in air and use him to hit the other dude". The entire table broke in laughter. When we're in the right mood 4E basically sings to us and the extra time it takes isn't a burden because combats are actually <strong>fun</strong> (while for example, we're really glad combat in 5E is over quickly because it may be faster but it's also incredibly stiff and repetitive).</p><p></p><p>3. Really glad you like the characters! My players always come up with the craziest inspirations and they really loved the premise of the setting, after so much "traditional" fantasy. The guy who plays the Artificer is an engineer in real life, so he's right at home here. He's put some conflict in the character by having him be both a scientist and devoted to Risuri tradition. They also really like to make the character work well together, so they're pretty much all friends in the game too. The Warforged was a blast to create. It all started with "how about a steampunk Robocop, since we're playing police officers basically?". He was a Gunslinger at first (the encounter power of the gunslinger theme is GENIUS) but the guy who plays it is such a good player, and when he read the skyseer and the backstory for the crystal (which is a fragment of a meteorite, and will strongly link him to the planar theme of the adventure) he decided he'd rather do the Bicentellian Man questioning life and discussing religion and philosophy. We used a Swordmage as the base class (he was a Fighter at first, but he's arcane-powered and the Swordmage powers are easy to reskin as "gadget" - flame hands become a flamethrower and so on).</p><p>The Avenger is my brother. When he saw the setting he said "If I ever manage to play a Bloodborne Hunter in a tabletop RPG, it's with this setting". The God Hands fluff was perfect (monster hunters from a distant land) and rolling an 18 for Wisdom, we basically had a cross between that fighting style and Robert Downey Jr's Sherlock Holmes on the table.</p><p>There's still one guy missing, he's a Docker Skald played by a guy who's fundamentally specialized in playing scoundrels and criminals. He'll be a lot of fun as the "redeemed" criminal with contacts in the city's gangs.</p><p></p><p>4. I've read up to adventure 7, but only up to adventure 4 in good detai. I have a good general idea of the themes and were the adventure seems to go, but I'm very open to suggestions! My players won't read this. They don't come to EnWorld and I didn't tell them I'd start a thread.<</p><p>I also have an habit of tweaking things to meet the expectations of my players - for example, I love the main antagonist and its concept, and I plan to make him stupidly overpowered in certain scenes, should the occasion arise - I'm already picturing him being able to jump from body to body in real time and the party having to take down a street urchin pulling martial scientist moves out of nowere only to see the eyes of a nearby farmer flash gold and see her starting to throw spells at them. Basically instead of one big Solo a climax encounter facing a stream of overpowered Minions. The setting and story have so much potential and I'm planning to go HAM with it <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> .</p><p></p><p>Really nice of you to check my thread, thanks!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VisanidethDM, post: 7390397, member: 6694821"] Hey! Answering your questions in order: 1. my players are old hats at pretty much every form of D&D (the group's age ranged from 35 to 45). 4E is our favourite incarnation of the system; my players have grown up on Warhammer and similar games and are really not intimidated by complex combat systems. We also strongly appreciate how the system allows the DM to be antagonistic and the players to still come on top, something other editions don't really handle well. We picked Zeitgeist because after reading the first 7 or so adventures I realized it capitalized on the strength of the system by having few and far between combats that were spectacular and challenging. I think 4E really shines when you divorce it from the "6 fights workday" formula that is D&D's standard, and Zeitgeist does precisely that. I would be much more scared of running it in, say, 5E, because 5E is a game where certain characters and classes become [U]a lot[/U] more powerful if they can blow their entire arsenal in a single fight. 2. I can imagine playtesting 4E to be a slog. We ran the first two sessions so far (3 hours or so each) and we barely got to the players being briefed about the Countess' invasion of Axis Island. The players are still introducing the characters and getting familiar with them, so I'm expecting to get up to speed in a few more sessions. In our last 4E game we had 3 to 4 hour sessions and we ultimately ran anything between 2 and 5 big fights in that time. Fights can be long in 4E, but they are also [B]FUN[/B]. We came from a long hiatus playing simplier and more narrative games (mostly WHFRPG, Savage Worlds and 5E) and the fight with them chasing Sokana on multiple levels, with her teleporting across gratings, the avenger shoving her around to get her in line of sight of the artificer fighting on the upper level and the warforged pulling the rod out of the furnace with his "lighting whip" (which we have reskinned as an electrified grappling hook) power was a blast. If your players are creative the mechanics of 4E become wonderful ways to tell stories and visualize the combat, giving it life. One of the players at my table, during our last run of Paizo's pirate adventure path (Skulls and Shackles) used Cleave (hit a dude for damage, hit a dude next to him for some more damage) with his Orc Fighter and looking at the fluff said "I take the first guy, lift him in air and use him to hit the other dude". The entire table broke in laughter. When we're in the right mood 4E basically sings to us and the extra time it takes isn't a burden because combats are actually [B]fun[/B] (while for example, we're really glad combat in 5E is over quickly because it may be faster but it's also incredibly stiff and repetitive). 3. Really glad you like the characters! My players always come up with the craziest inspirations and they really loved the premise of the setting, after so much "traditional" fantasy. The guy who plays the Artificer is an engineer in real life, so he's right at home here. He's put some conflict in the character by having him be both a scientist and devoted to Risuri tradition. They also really like to make the character work well together, so they're pretty much all friends in the game too. The Warforged was a blast to create. It all started with "how about a steampunk Robocop, since we're playing police officers basically?". He was a Gunslinger at first (the encounter power of the gunslinger theme is GENIUS) but the guy who plays it is such a good player, and when he read the skyseer and the backstory for the crystal (which is a fragment of a meteorite, and will strongly link him to the planar theme of the adventure) he decided he'd rather do the Bicentellian Man questioning life and discussing religion and philosophy. We used a Swordmage as the base class (he was a Fighter at first, but he's arcane-powered and the Swordmage powers are easy to reskin as "gadget" - flame hands become a flamethrower and so on). The Avenger is my brother. When he saw the setting he said "If I ever manage to play a Bloodborne Hunter in a tabletop RPG, it's with this setting". The God Hands fluff was perfect (monster hunters from a distant land) and rolling an 18 for Wisdom, we basically had a cross between that fighting style and Robert Downey Jr's Sherlock Holmes on the table. There's still one guy missing, he's a Docker Skald played by a guy who's fundamentally specialized in playing scoundrels and criminals. He'll be a lot of fun as the "redeemed" criminal with contacts in the city's gangs. 4. I've read up to adventure 7, but only up to adventure 4 in good detai. I have a good general idea of the themes and were the adventure seems to go, but I'm very open to suggestions! My players won't read this. They don't come to EnWorld and I didn't tell them I'd start a thread.< I also have an habit of tweaking things to meet the expectations of my players - for example, I love the main antagonist and its concept, and I plan to make him stupidly overpowered in certain scenes, should the occasion arise - I'm already picturing him being able to jump from body to body in real time and the party having to take down a street urchin pulling martial scientist moves out of nowere only to see the eyes of a nearby farmer flash gold and see her starting to throw spells at them. Basically instead of one big Solo a climax encounter facing a stream of overpowered Minions. The setting and story have so much potential and I'm planning to go HAM with it :D . Really nice of you to check my thread, thanks! [/QUOTE]
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