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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8959491" data-attributes="member: 6785785">But that’s not a railroad, either. I mentioned Tales From the Loop. The PCs are young kids, maybe 10 to 13… the rules state that the PCs cannot die. It’s not what the game is about. The PCs can certainly fail. I think you’re conflating success and survival but really, survival is just one example of success. There are others. I also mentioned Spire. That game has potentially severe consequences, including character death and similar consequences that effectively end the character’s story. One of these, interestingly, gives the player the choice: the character will die, but they get to take one last action with a bonus because it is the last thing they’ll ever do OR they can deny death and come back to the world of the living, but changed, always changed.One PC in my game got that and decided to come back changed, and the impact that decision had on the campaign was drastic. Far more severe than any PC death I’ve ever seen. I don’t consider all consequences as lesser than death. My example above from Spire involved a radical reinterpretation of the PC. I expect many players would not have been on board with the change and would have opted for the death and to then make a new character. How do you determine if an attack succeeds in D&amp;D? You roll a die, add a bonus, and try to meet or exceed the target’s AC. That’s the system determining results… “system says”. When it comes to non-combat in D&amp;D, things can potentially shift much more into the “GM says” sphere. Yes. Uncertain, with the outcome determined by the system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 8959491, member: 6785785"] But that’s not a railroad, either. I mentioned Tales From the Loop. The PCs are young kids, maybe 10 to 13… the rules state that the PCs cannot die. It’s not what the game is about. The PCs can certainly fail. I think you’re conflating success and survival but really, survival is just one example of success. There are others. I also mentioned Spire. That game has potentially severe consequences, including character death and similar consequences that effectively end the character’s story. One of these, interestingly, gives the player the choice: the character will die, but they get to take one last action with a bonus because it is the last thing they’ll ever do OR they can deny death and come back to the world of the living, but changed, always changed. One PC in my game got that and decided to come back changed, and the impact that decision had on the campaign was drastic. Far more severe than any PC death I’ve ever seen. I don’t consider all consequences as lesser than death. My example above from Spire involved a radical reinterpretation of the PC. I expect many players would not have been on board with the change and would have opted for the death and to then make a new character. How do you determine if an attack succeeds in D&D? You roll a die, add a bonus, and try to meet or exceed the target’s AC. That’s the system determining results… “system says”. When it comes to non-combat in D&D, things can potentially shift much more into the “GM says” sphere. Yes. Uncertain, with the outcome determined by the system. [/QUOTE]

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