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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8960387" data-attributes="member: 82106">Eh, 4e mooks (minions) can DEFINITELY be a challenge. Ask my first play group about the orc minion gauntlet! I made a whole level + 4 encounter that was nothing but orc archer minions, off on an island in a body of water where you would have to wade out to get them or else fire at them at extreme range. Then there was a way past that only required the PCs to run by for one round, except HAHA! there was a boat out on the island you MUST have to continue, so you run past, find out you can't continue without wading out to the island, and get bombed by this plethora of archers (which do somewhat less damage individually than standard orc archers, but there are 4x as many of them). Of course the party DID kill off a pretty decent number as they slogged their way out there, but man they were cursing and only the wizard was fairly happy with Magic Missile being pretty effective (I think he actually burned an AP to fire it twice to kill an extra minion, lol). I've done a few other, less evil, setups where minions were quite effective. If they can avoid damage until they get in an attack or two, they're quite worthwhile, so cover, maybe invisibility, some terrain as above, etc. can make them good. And why wouldn't evil bad guy commanders kinda know this &quot;My warriors are weak, but if I put them behind this parapet and arm them with bows and spears...&quot; Even orcs can figure that out!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8960387, member: 82106"] Eh, 4e mooks (minions) can DEFINITELY be a challenge. Ask my first play group about the orc minion gauntlet! I made a whole level + 4 encounter that was nothing but orc archer minions, off on an island in a body of water where you would have to wade out to get them or else fire at them at extreme range. Then there was a way past that only required the PCs to run by for one round, except HAHA! there was a boat out on the island you MUST have to continue, so you run past, find out you can't continue without wading out to the island, and get bombed by this plethora of archers (which do somewhat less damage individually than standard orc archers, but there are 4x as many of them). Of course the party DID kill off a pretty decent number as they slogged their way out there, but man they were cursing and only the wizard was fairly happy with Magic Missile being pretty effective (I think he actually burned an AP to fire it twice to kill an extra minion, lol). I've done a few other, less evil, setups where minions were quite effective. If they can avoid damage until they get in an attack or two, they're quite worthwhile, so cover, maybe invisibility, some terrain as above, etc. can make them good. And why wouldn't evil bad guy commanders kinda know this "My warriors are weak, but if I put them behind this parapet and arm them with bows and spears..." Even orcs can figure that out! [/QUOTE]

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